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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7698226" data-attributes="member: 7006">But at that point, you're not really creating new archetypes, you're just creating new maneuvers.&nbsp; All you're doing is pre-selecting a series of maneuvers as a Battle Master and wrapping them up in wrapping paper that says 'Cavalier', 'Scout' or 'Monster Hunter' on it.Which is fine if that's what you want to do... I've mentioned before in the various &quot;Fighter sub-classes have no fluff&quot; threads that an easy way to make fluff for your fighters is to do just that-- come up with a fluff concept, then pre-select the maneuvers for that concept and say &quot;Here's a Gladiator!&quot; for example.&nbsp; These archetypes are pretty much the same thing except in order to make them truly unique, they've each been given an additional special feature that no other BMs get to take, as a reward for pre-selecting the maneuvers they can take by staying within the fluff.One way isn't better or worse than the other.&nbsp; The only real difference is that with the way WotC is currently going about it... they are &quot;stopping&quot; the one biggest avenue for problems down the road-- they are not making every maneuver open to every BM, which means the optimizers can't create the &quot;ultimate&quot; BM by cherry picking from all the maneuvers.&nbsp; Not unless they have a DM who is okay with throwing all these new maneuvers back into the general BM pot.&nbsp; But that's going to be an individual DM's choice rather than the default for everyone.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7698226, member: 7006"] But at that point, you're not really creating new archetypes, you're just creating new maneuvers. All you're doing is pre-selecting a series of maneuvers as a Battle Master and wrapping them up in wrapping paper that says 'Cavalier', 'Scout' or 'Monster Hunter' on it. Which is fine if that's what you want to do... I've mentioned before in the various "Fighter sub-classes have no fluff" threads that an easy way to make fluff for your fighters is to do just that-- come up with a fluff concept, then pre-select the maneuvers for that concept and say "Here's a Gladiator!" for example. These archetypes are pretty much the same thing [i]except[/i] in order to make them truly unique, they've each been given an additional special feature that no other BMs get to take, as a reward for pre-selecting the maneuvers they can take by staying within the fluff. One way isn't better or worse than the other. The only real difference is that with the way WotC is currently going about it... they are "stopping" the one biggest avenue for problems down the road-- they are not making every maneuver open to every BM, which means the optimizers can't create the "ultimate" BM by cherry picking from all the maneuvers. Not unless they have a DM who is okay with throwing all these new maneuvers back into the general BM pot. But that's going to be an individual DM's choice rather than the default for everyone. [/QUOTE]

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