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<blockquote data-quote="Mistwell" data-source="post: 7965136" data-attributes="member: 2525">I don't think that's a fair characterization of this series of events. Here is what you said:So you asked for people's OPINIONS, and challenged them to come up with SPECIFIC PERCENTAGE NUMBERS based on their opinions, and told them it would be a COP OUT if they refused to do that.So I did exactly that. And now you just bashed me for giving my opinion and assigning numbers to that opinion in the precise manner you challenged people to do.THAT is what disingenuous looks like to me. It looked exactly like I characterized it earlier - you asked for people's opinions but didn't seem prepared to get those opinions if they ran contrary to what your opinion was, because as you said you thought people would &quot;think [you] were actually correct&quot;. When it turned out that was not the case, suddenly it's &quot;opinions not supported by facts...numbers all made up on the spot...not acceptable as indications...&quot;Another strawman. I never made any claim to 100%. Why do you keep doing that? It's not polite.You darn well do know where it's coming from! It's coming from, &quot;What percentage, do you think...Please answer honestly. &quot;I have no idea&quot; is fine, but it's a cop-out, frankly, because you clearly have an opinion here.&quot; What is this, selective amnesia?I lumped the Psion editions together.&nbsp; I agree the link between the two is weak, but it's literally the only &quot;tradition&quot; stand you have going for you as those are the only two editions which even named the darn thing the same thing between them. If you want to argue we shouldn't even consider that commonality, go ahead. But as you argued earlier for &quot;strong tradition&quot; and used both those editions in your argument, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you thought they were very similar.Do they? You told me not 100% of 1E fans like psionics as something all classes can access, but now you're speaking for all fans of 29 years worth of editions and saying they all 100% agree? I am asking you for clarification here - is that what you're saying or are you saying that's not really what all of them think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mistwell, post: 7965136, member: 2525"] I don't think that's a fair characterization of this series of events. Here is what you said: So you asked for people's OPINIONS, and challenged them to come up with SPECIFIC PERCENTAGE NUMBERS based on their opinions, and told them it would be a COP OUT if they refused to do that. So I did exactly that. And now you just bashed me for giving my opinion and assigning numbers to that opinion in the precise manner you challenged people to do. THAT is what disingenuous looks like to me. It looked exactly like I characterized it earlier - you asked for people's opinions but didn't seem prepared to get those opinions if they ran contrary to what your opinion was, because as you said you thought people would "think [you] were actually correct". When it turned out that was not the case, suddenly it's "opinions not supported by facts...numbers all made up on the spot...not acceptable as indications..." Another strawman. I never made any claim to 100%. Why do you keep doing that? It's not polite. You darn well do know where it's coming from! It's coming from, "What percentage, do you think...Please answer honestly. "I have no idea" is fine, but it's a cop-out, frankly, because you clearly have an opinion here." What is this, selective amnesia? I lumped the Psion editions together. I agree the link between the two is weak, but it's literally the only "tradition" stand you have going for you as those are the only two editions which even named the darn thing the same thing between them. If you want to argue we shouldn't even consider that commonality, go ahead. But as you argued earlier for "strong tradition" and used both those editions in your argument, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you thought they were very similar. Do they? You told me not 100% of 1E fans like psionics as something all classes can access, but now you're speaking for all fans of 29 years worth of editions and saying they all 100% agree? I am asking you for clarification here - is that what you're saying or are you saying that's not really what all of them think? [/QUOTE]

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