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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 7708641" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Which is why I think all of the subclasses need rewritten, to bring them all into line, instead of simply making the new ones more powerful. They hated doing it with the Ranger, but they did it. Which is only good if you never want to cast 1st level spells. Like Cure Wounds and Healing Word for your Favored Soul, or MAge Armor, or Shield. Up casting spells like you talk about below is only possible if you know those low-level spells. So instead you wouldn't take any high level spells, but that is clearly not optimal. Yes, you can shuffle 1 spell every level when it becomes useless, but if you took a spell that would eventually become useless as compared to one that is always useful... Doesn't that seem odd. Also, those 1st level slots will only ever net you 4 sorcerery points, in increments of 1 per bonus action, not exceeding your sorcerer level, and represent about 2 uses of metamagic in place of 4 spells (on average, twinning Haste for example costs 3 points, while quicken is always 2). Looking at your list of awesome things a sorcerer can do, I noticed something. All but 1 of your specific examples involved Quicken or Twin, and that 1 example was using Plane Shift which you won't have by 11th level.Also, Enlarge doesn't exist. You might be thinking of Distant which does not increase the area of effect unfortunately. And again, this is part of the problem. Barring some very specific builds, or a political intrigue game where Subtle can actually shine, the vast majority of Sorcerers talk about using Quicken and Twin. Followed at level 10 with either Heighten or Empower, and then grabbing the one you didn't grab at like level 17. That's it, that is the power of metamagic. Doubling spells and casting them faster. It's good, but Twinning is expensive for high level spells, and generally people combine them. They can dish out comparable damage, but at the end of the day, it just doesn't feel good to have your major ability decided from before you even start (metamagic being so highly limited) and 15-16 spells (by using a feat) limits you so hard, especially for the Favored Soul who wants those Cleric spells, and you either don't have what you want at lower levels or you have no higher level spells. They need just a little more metamagic, a few more spells known, just to let them breathe so a sorcerer player can feel okay choosing something for fun on occasion instead of needing to optimize every decision from level 1 on. Also, I don;t like multi-classing, so I don't like that as a solution.</blockquote>

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