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Message: <blockquote data-quote="bestone" data-source="post: 3356451" data-attributes="member: 48880">Heres your position, eithera)Sunder is a standard action, because the table says so. The text of an attack only applies if you have the standard action to do so (which you've yet to quote a rule to prove this), regardless of what the text says. Which then contradicts all your earlier comments, and regardless of what a supernatural ability or other such thing says, and states how it works, you have to be able to have a standard action to even apply the text.or b)"When you use a sunder action"...... which is not how its writte, and not rules as writtenI've quoted rules, and pulled refrences, you have a claim based on assumption, im using the rules as written. Once you pull rules to support your claim, this argument is over and your right, if you dont have rules to support your claim....then your claim cant be held as raw.Edit:Or better yet, lets use your logic, whats the difference between a standard action and another?You "claim" (unfoundedly) that you have to be able to do a standard action action for the text of a special attack listed on a table as a standard action to apply (regardless of how the text actually says it works)When your making an attack of opportunity, your making a melee attack, a melee attack counts as a standard action, so you are, in essence, doing a standard action, and sunder is a special attack, so your doing an attack, you make it a special attack, and read the rules for the special attack which states you can use your melee attack (standard action) to sunder (requires a standard action)Bottom line? The text of special attacks tell you how you can apply them, and thats how you apply them. If you use sunder then its a standard action, not you must have a standard action in order to sunder. You read the special attack, it tells you how to use it. Thats how you use it. If you use it on your turn, its a standard action. If you use it as an attack of opporunity, well then its still a standard action (as is trip/grapple/blah/blah) but your using it as your attack of opportunity.Sunder is listed as Sunder (attack) on that tableYou find me a rule that states that the text of a special attack only comes into effect if you have a standard action make the attack with, regardless of the text for the attack or how it states it works. or you have no legs to stand on in this argument.If we use your logic, there is a disagreement between the rules, Using your logic, the table states that sunder is a standard action, and can only be used when you have a standard action. However under sunder it says You can use a melee attack, *which can be an attack of opportunity*So again, using your logic CREATES a disagreement, so you go by the text, which tells you how you can use it, and thats how you can use it</blockquote>

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