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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Legildur" data-source="post: 3358807" data-attributes="member: 1258">I love this line <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />My recollection is that he agreed that MAYBE you could interpret it your way in absence of the table. However, the table exists and quote clearly articulates that it requires Standard Action and cannot be substituted for a melee attack, as it is not listed under 'action type varies' and does not have footnote 7. Therefore the action type does not vary and it requires a Standard Action. And the lack of footnote certainly means that it cannot be used as AOO.So you are continually asserting.  He has proved it to many others who have accepted the view (and others that haven't).  His position is built on logic and evidence as contained in the core rules and doesn't require the convenient assumption that the table is wrong (or missing information). Making sweeping absolute statements otherwise doesn't make you position the right one. Your position is a possible one, but my position is that a strict reading of the rules tells us otherwise.In your opinion. I see it otherwise. Hyp has patiently spelled out his logic and evidence in response to each of your points. So you can hardly claim that he has ignored you - that is patently wrong and just a little insulting after reading tens of his and your posts. In my view it seems that you are not willing to accept his argument.  And that's fine. But to then make sweeping statements about 'he proves nothing' or 'he proves my point' or he 'ignores my points' just aren't true.  They are only true in your opinion, and possibly with some of those that share it.Even the old 3.0 treated 'Strike a Weapon' as a Standard Action (with no listing under 'action type varies' or the special footnote).Doesn't it seem odd that they have treated it differently to disarm/grapple/trip across so many versions? (d20 modern etc that Hyp has already listed)I see the point you are trying to make, but I don't think you can ignore the table.Edit: I see that Hyp has since rebutted your erroneous paraphrasing of his argument.</blockquote>

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