Unhappy with no sneak in dark alley

[isoChron]

Hi all.
I'm not very happy with the straight mechanic that says you can't sneak attack someone if he has concealment.
Stories often tell about a rogue waiting in a dark small alley to give someone a foot of good cold steel. Now how should the D&D-Rogue do this.
Even shadowy areas give concealment.
A room with candles only has no place with a bright light, only with shadowy areas -> concealment -> no sneak.
It's ok for me that cover negates sneak attack and maybe even foilage but simply dim light ... ? Hm. The Fighter doesn't suffer from concealment because he can crit as long as he hits good enough. Just the same 20% miss chance as the rogue.

Should the assassine always draw a light before he sneak attacks ? Naaa.
Most rogues (humans, halflings) don't have darkvision or lowlight vision so how to do a sneak ?
Sure there is magic to gain superior visions but that's not what I want.

In our gaming group we toyed around with the following house rules (all have a 20% miss chance due to concealment no matter what the rest of the house rule says):

1. Rogues can sneak attack as long as the concealment comes from shadowy area or mist. No sneak attacks with total concealment like total darkness, invisibility ... Maybe limited to melee attacks

or
2. Rogues have to succeed at a spot check DC20 to hit as a sneak attack if there is concealment. If they don't make the check it's only normal damage.

or
3. A new feat named sure striking or something like that. Removes concealment as long as it's not total.

or
4. A flat -4 to attacks because of concealment IF you want to sneak attack.

Any other idea. Someone ? The more simple the better.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Half-orcs don't look so bad now

It is a strange artifact of the rules though. I think that I'd treat it the following way:

"concealment due to shadowy areas (20% concealment) doesn't count within 5ft of a target".

So in a shadowy alleyway (20% concealment) the rogues cannot sneak attack him with their missile weapons, but they can jump out and mug him with their saps.

Precedent: Obscuring Mist is an example of a situation where you have differing amounts of concealment - it is less when you are right next to someone.

That is how I'd handle it. It seems in keeping with the genre, the spirit of the rules and perhaps even general logic.

Cheers

 

[BSF]

This has bothered me as well and Plane Sailing's solution seems easy to work.

 

[isoChron]

Hm, indeed a nice and clean solution.
Thank you.

 

[maybeso]

I don't think I like the ability to sneak attack from bright light into shadowy areas, other than that I like Plane Sailing's 5" rule.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Yub, yub! Throw my hat into the ring that says "yoink!"

Nice call there Plane Sailing, this will help alleviate the whole rogue can't sneak attack in shadowy areas problem. Makes the shadows once again something to fear again, where in the current core rules:

Rogue: *stalking party but is suddenly discovered*
Fighter: "Quick everyone! Into the shadows, we'll be safe there!
Rogue: "Curses, foiled by concealment again!"

Lol, how silly is that eh?

 

[CapnZapp]

I think what you really are after is: your eyes adapt to the darkness.

I can see why this didn't make it into the core rules (it complicates stuff) but I can also easily see the core rules being *too* simple in this regard.

Allowing sneak attacks within 5 ft is simple, yes, but it also negates the rule for most practical purposes. Ranged sneak attacks or sneak attacks agarinst monsters with reach, yes they play a part, but I'd say melee sneak attacks are easily the majority of all sneak attacks. Bottom line: I'm not sure this change is balanced. The rule really needs the addendum "if you move no farther than 5ft in the round you attempt the sneak attack(s), then you can ignore concealment"

Instead, consider the following rule (with Assassin Death Attack as precedent): "You can adapt your vision to inferior lightning conditions, by spending 3 rounds observing the target. This lets you ignore shadowy illumination but not total darkness for the purposes of interacting with (i.e. sneak attacking) said target."

Note that this rule doesn't let you ignore shadowy illumination in general just by spending three rounds in the dark - even though that would be perfectly reasonable from a realism point of view. This rule does allow cutthroats to continue earning their living, while maintaining crappy lightning conditions as the major obstacle the rules make it to be.

A real solution would have to take into account how long you have spent in the game's different "intensities of illumination" (Blinding Light, Bright Light/Daylight, Normal Light, Shadowy Light, Darkness) but, let me tell you - it ain't worth it.