Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="Voss" data-source="post: 3918135" data-attributes="member: 57593">They are, really.&nbsp; If its like saga and you've got the trained/untrained distinction, at lower levels you can try things (but some uses are trained only), but you're essentially throwing a random d20 and expecting to fail 75% of the time for basic tasks.&nbsp; That slowly goes down to 25% as you approach 20th level.&nbsp; Ability bonuses change these numbers slightly, but not much.As for clumsy barbarian vs. courtier... again, if its like saga, no worries.&nbsp; In fact, you're barbarian will barely be on the same field as the courtier even at 20th level.10th level barbarian- diplomacy (untrained)&nbsp; 1/2 level + cha bonus = 5 + 0(probably) = 51st level courtier.&nbsp; diplomacy (trained) + skill focus diplomacy + cha bonus (2?) =5+5+2= 12Even if he doesn't have skill focus, he still has an edge on you, at first level.&nbsp; Thats a pretty big gap to bridge.&nbsp; And if he is actually 10th level as well, the number is 18 or 19.&nbsp; Courtier wins, almost all the time.This actually becomes a problem in Saga with skills like initiative and stealth vs. perception.&nbsp; Training and skill focus win to the point that not training these skills is a character optimization problem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Voss, post: 3918135, member: 57593"] They are, really. If its like saga and you've got the trained/untrained distinction, at lower levels you can try things (but some uses are trained only), but you're essentially throwing a random d20 and expecting to fail 75% of the time for basic tasks. That slowly goes down to 25% as you approach 20th level. Ability bonuses change these numbers slightly, but not much. As for clumsy barbarian vs. courtier... again, if its like saga, no worries. In fact, you're barbarian will barely be on the same field as the courtier even at 20th level. 10th level barbarian- diplomacy (untrained) 1/2 level + cha bonus = 5 + 0(probably) = 5 1st level courtier. diplomacy (trained) + skill focus diplomacy + cha bonus (2?) =5+5+2= 12 Even if he doesn't have skill focus, he still has an edge on you, at first level. Thats a pretty big gap to bridge. And if he is actually 10th level as well, the number is 18 or 19. Courtier wins, almost all the time. This actually becomes a problem in Saga with skills like initiative and stealth vs. perception. Training and skill focus win to the point that not training these skills is a character optimization problem. [/QUOTE]

Verification