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<blockquote data-quote="Atlatl Jones" data-source="post: 3917213" data-attributes="member: 54620">It seems to me that getting rid of the Christmas tree effect will have the opposite effect of what you're predicting.&nbsp; The distinction that in 3e, many of the magic items had nothing to do with the &quot;low fantasy&quot; vs &quot;high fantasy&quot; feel.&nbsp; Most magic items were just boosts which didn't influence the feel at all, except that they came from magic items.&nbsp; However, because these boosts did come from magic items, and they were necessary for game balance, especially at high levels, it made it very difficult to run a game with no magic items.&nbsp; Characters with no magic items weren't more &quot;low fantasy&quot;, they just had ludicrously low ACs and saving throws.However, in 4e, magic items aren't necessary for game balance.&nbsp; It's perfectly feasible to have high level characters with no magic items, so you can create heroes like Beowulf who didn't have a single magic item but still defeated monsters and dragons.&nbsp; Or you could have Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, with spent all their money on ale and whores, but still were potent warriors.&nbsp; First of all, removing magic items in 3e doesn't simply lower the power level.&nbsp; It affects the power level unevenly: fighters are gimped, but wizards and clerics are barely affected at all; attacks aren't affected much, but AC becomes so extraordinarily low that monsters of the equivalent CR almost never missed.&nbsp; It basically throws game balance out the window, rather than just lowering it.In 4e, if you want lower powered characters, play characters that are lower levels.&nbsp; If you want games where magic items are extremely uncommon, just don't give any magic items, and be thankful that that doesn't throw the game mechanics off-kilter.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Atlatl Jones, post: 3917213, member: 54620"] It seems to me that getting rid of the Christmas tree effect will have the opposite effect of what you're predicting. The distinction that in 3e, many of the magic items had nothing to do with the "low fantasy" vs "high fantasy" feel. Most magic items were just boosts which didn't influence the feel at all, except that they came from magic items. However, because these boosts did come from magic items, and they were necessary for game balance, especially at high levels, it made it very difficult to run a game with no magic items. Characters with no magic items weren't more "low fantasy", they just had ludicrously low ACs and saving throws. However, in 4e, magic items aren't necessary for game balance. It's perfectly feasible to have high level characters with no magic items, so you can create heroes like Beowulf who didn't have a single magic item but still defeated monsters and dragons. Or you could have Conan, Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser, with spent all their money on ale and whores, but still were potent warriors. First of all, removing magic items in 3e doesn't simply lower the power level. It affects the power level unevenly: fighters are gimped, but wizards and clerics are barely affected at all; attacks aren't affected much, but AC becomes so extraordinarily low that monsters of the equivalent CR almost never missed. It basically throws game balance out the window, rather than just lowering it. In 4e, if you want lower powered characters, play characters that are lower levels. If you want games where magic items are extremely uncommon, just don't give any magic items, and be thankful that that doesn't throw the game mechanics off-kilter. [/QUOTE]

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