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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3920180" data-attributes="member: 18280">I find that dispel magic is a useful counter to this sort of thing, where something effectively announces its presence.&nbsp; Invisibility doesn't mean the wizard cannot be heard, and the spell ends if the subject attacks any creature, including any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.&nbsp; So, while it might allow a sort of suicidal first-strike, it won't be the overwhelming combination you might imagine.&nbsp; Depending upon the battlefield, Fly isn't always as useful as you might like, either.The occasional foe with Blind-Fight can help here, too.&nbsp; The idea isn't to nerf the tactic, but to prevent it from being a catch-all tactic that can be used in every battle.First off, PFA only gives DR 10, and a critical with an arrow can easily pierce his DR.&nbsp; A number of other missile-type attacks can do the same, including bows and other missiles that allow you to add your Strength bonus to damage.The same way it was done in 1e:&nbsp; lots of mooks + wandering monsters = dead spellcaster if the spellcaster doesn't save some of his spells.&nbsp; A spellcaster in a world where he can't guarantee the chance to rest &amp; recover spells should never use his last spell.&nbsp; He always needs an ace or two up his sleeve.Don't pull your punches, and the players will learn to keep a reserve.In all of these cases, it is useful to have areas where other spells might have been more useful, forcing the players to consider other options.&nbsp; Try it and see how it works.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3920180, member: 18280"] I find that [i]dispel magic[/i] is a useful counter to this sort of thing, where something effectively announces its presence. Invisibility doesn't mean the wizard cannot be heard, and the spell ends if the subject attacks any creature, including any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe. So, while it might allow a sort of suicidal first-strike, it won't be the overwhelming combination you might imagine. Depending upon the battlefield, Fly isn't always as useful as you might like, either. The occasional foe with Blind-Fight can help here, too. The idea isn't to nerf the tactic, but to prevent it from being a catch-all tactic that can be used in every battle. First off, PFA only gives DR 10, and a critical with an arrow can easily pierce his DR. A number of other missile-type attacks can do the same, including bows and other missiles that allow you to add your Strength bonus to damage. The same way it was done in 1e: lots of mooks + wandering monsters = dead spellcaster if the spellcaster doesn't save some of his spells. A spellcaster in a world where he can't guarantee the chance to rest & recover spells should never use his last spell. He always needs an ace or two up his sleeve. Don't pull your punches, and the players will learn to keep a reserve. In all of these cases, it is useful to have areas where other spells might have been more useful, forcing the players to consider other options. Try it and see how it works. RC [/QUOTE]

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