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<blockquote data-quote="Swarmkeeper" data-source="post: 7584960" data-attributes="member: 6921763">With all due respect, you are misunderstanding the plastyle.&nbsp; The statement of goals is a perfectly natural extension of declaring actions and simply allows the players to have greater agency over their PCs - with the added benefit of lessening the workload of the DM and perhaps even allowing a scene to go in a direction the DM never imagined.&nbsp; It's that last one which is very enjoyable to me.I'm sure @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814" target="_blank">Ovinomancer</a> can provide more, but here are a couple just off the cuff:Example 1 - climbing the tower with a stated goalDM:&nbsp; &quot;You reach the top of the hill leaving the forest below you.&nbsp; Before you is a 40' grey tower made of large, rough blocks of stone.&nbsp; The tower appears to have no door or windows.&nbsp; What do you do?&quot;Player 1:&nbsp; &quot;I'd like to climb the tower using the blocks as hand/foot holds.&nbsp; But before getting to the top, I'd like to stop and get a good look around to let the others what I see.&quot;DM:&nbsp; &quot;Roll a Strength (Athletics) check, DC 15 - the blocks are old and a bit crumbly&quot;The player clearly states an action (climb the tower) and a goal (to get a better view of the surroundings before reaching the top).&nbsp; Without the goal statement, the DM has to make a big assumption that since the PC wanted to climb the tower that they will get to the top with a successful roll and step into a group of quietly waiting orcs.... which is in no way what the player intended.&nbsp; And then you have an awkward phase of &quot;that's not what I wanted to do&quot; and the scene is, well, ruined.&nbsp; By stating a goal, the DM is now prompted to allow the perched climber a better chance to hear the whispers coming from above and give them a chance to act on that knowledge.&nbsp; If the player was explicit that they wanted to climb the tower and stop short of the top, but didn't explain their goal, then the DM has to prompt them again:&nbsp; &quot;ok, you are almost near the top, now what?&quot; - when that would have been obvious if they had just stated the goal in the first place.&nbsp; That last point is a subtle difference, but one that, IMO, makes the action flow more naturally with a much DM prompting.Example 2 - knocking a creature out without a stated goalNow in combat, declaring a goal is certainly not always necessary but there is at least one very important exception.&nbsp; Player 1: &quot;I swing my axe at the orc - I know a 17 hits - 8 damage!&quot;DM: &quot;You cleave the orcs skull and it falls to the ground&quot;Player 1: &quot;But my PC just wanted to knock it out!&quot;Because the goal was not stated, we now pause the game to have an awkward phase of rolling back the action when, with a simple stated goal, we can have the narrative just flow naturally.Gotta run or else would add some more... but do those make sense @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6688277" target="_blank">Sadras</a>?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Swarmkeeper, post: 7584960, member: 6921763"] With all due respect, you are misunderstanding the plastyle. The statement of goals is a perfectly natural extension of declaring actions and simply allows the players to have greater agency over their PCs - with the added benefit of lessening the workload of the DM and perhaps even allowing a scene to go in a direction the DM never imagined. It's that last one which is very enjoyable to me. I'm sure @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16814"]Ovinomancer[/URL][/U][/B][/I] can provide more, but here are a couple just off the cuff: Example 1 - climbing the tower with a stated goal DM: "You reach the top of the hill leaving the forest below you. Before you is a 40' grey tower made of large, rough blocks of stone. The tower appears to have no door or windows. What do you do?" Player 1: "I'd like to climb the tower using the blocks as hand/foot holds. But before getting to the top, I'd like to stop and get a good look around to let the others what I see." DM: "Roll a Strength (Athletics) check, DC 15 - the blocks are old and a bit crumbly" The player clearly states an action (climb the tower) and a goal (to get a better view of the surroundings before reaching the top). Without the goal statement, the DM has to make a big assumption that since the PC wanted to climb the tower that they will get to the top with a successful roll and step into a group of quietly waiting orcs.... which is in no way what the player intended. And then you have an awkward phase of "that's not what I wanted to do" and the scene is, well, ruined. By stating a goal, the DM is now prompted to allow the perched climber a better chance to hear the whispers coming from above and give them a chance to act on that knowledge. If the player was explicit that they wanted to climb the tower and stop short of the top, but didn't explain their goal, then the DM has to prompt them again: "ok, you are almost near the top, now what?" - when that would have been obvious if they had just stated the goal in the first place. That last point is a subtle difference, but one that, IMO, makes the action flow more naturally with a much DM prompting. Example 2 - knocking a creature out without a stated goal Now in combat, declaring a goal is certainly not always necessary but there is at least one very important exception. Player 1: "I swing my axe at the orc - I know a 17 hits - 8 damage!" DM: "You cleave the orcs skull and it falls to the ground" Player 1: "But my PC just wanted to knock it out!" Because the goal was not stated, we now pause the game to have an awkward phase of rolling back the action when, with a simple stated goal, we can have the narrative just flow naturally. Gotta run or else would add some more... but do those make sense @[I][B][U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6688277"]Sadras[/URL][/U][/B][/I]? [/QUOTE]

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