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Unsatisfied with the D&D 5e skill system
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<blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7584963" data-attributes="member: 16814"><p>It 1) doesn't ever violate causality, but that a different duscussion* and 2) I borrow part of the concept, not the mechanics. 5e is very much a resolution at the end system, which means that you establish the fiction up to resolving the action and resolution possibilities are pinned to that fiction. I definitely use the 5e resolution mechanic, but am explicit as to what's at stake. My system mastery lets me be much more flexible in establishing these stakes on the fly rather than prepping them all ahead of time. This let's me be more reactive to the play at the table rather than what's in my prep. It isn't using the resolution in the middle* mechanics you're referencing -- 5e just does not support this play and will fight you if you use it.</p><p></p><p>An example of this play was a recent session. One character was trying to improve relations with a faction he had a poor reputation with. After setting the scene, the character offered his services as a means to improve relations, but failed the CHA check called for. I perverted his goal by having the faction representative assign a very hard test challenge of bringing a notorious murderer to justice and saying "don't show your face again without him." I made up the murderer right there because I had no idea at the beginning of the session that the player was going to do this or what that interaction would look like. But, the player presented a plausible course of action for the faction with a clear goal (improve my standing) and a clear approach (offer my services). I determined this was a CHA challenge and set the DC as hard due to previous history modified to moderate (DC 15) for a good approach (the PC skillset was valuable to the faction). At stake was the player goal of improved relations. Instead of closing that door on the failure, I elected to make it harder by setting up a hard challenge.</p><p></p><p>That challenge, as an aside, led to a TPK because the PCs decided to split up an charge into multiple different buildings, encounting all of the medium to hard difficulty challenge parts of the murder's gang (thrown together in a few moments using stock NPCs) at the same time and independently. And that was with good intel earned by successful checks investigating. </p><p></p><p>I have a house rule I'm trying out in this game that PCs don't die unless the player says so, but I get to be mean about it. No one chose to die, so I got to be mean. Since this is the first use in the campaign so far, I stuck to undercutting backstories with unwelcome truths and rolling back previous successes reputationally. Oh, and stealing gear. So much gear. </p><p></p><p>*A resolution in the middle system, like, say, Dungeon World, starts with a scene framing a challenge and then goes to player action declarations. The actions are resolved without establishing the precuse fiction of the action, and the result is then used to establish both the fiction of the action and the result. For instance, Dungeon World has an action called Spout Lore. If a player asks what their character knows about something in game, the GM either tells them or can ask for a Spout Lore. The check determines if the action succeeds, partially succeeds, or fails. On any success, the GM is now required to tell the player something interesting about what they asked about. This is important because whatever was asked about must now be important on a success. The GM is obligated to make this thing have importance and tell the player true things about it. On a failure, though, the GM can now make a move against the player, either introducing a new threat that must be addressed or paying off a threat that impacts the PC. Possible examples are being cursed by the runes you're trying to Spout Lore on, or a wandering monster, or even you do know what the runes say but it's really bad and not at all what you hoped. </p><p></p><p>Clearly this us very different from D&D in play and in concept. Every action makes the entire progression of the game fluid. These games react very poorly to preplotting or even drawing out maps before play. Not everyone's cuppa, and that's fine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovinomancer, post: 7584963, member: 16814"] It 1) doesn't ever violate causality, but that a different duscussion* and 2) I borrow part of the concept, not the mechanics. 5e is very much a resolution at the end system, which means that you establish the fiction up to resolving the action and resolution possibilities are pinned to that fiction. I definitely use the 5e resolution mechanic, but am explicit as to what's at stake. My system mastery lets me be much more flexible in establishing these stakes on the fly rather than prepping them all ahead of time. This let's me be more reactive to the play at the table rather than what's in my prep. It isn't using the resolution in the middle* mechanics you're referencing -- 5e just does not support this play and will fight you if you use it. An example of this play was a recent session. One character was trying to improve relations with a faction he had a poor reputation with. After setting the scene, the character offered his services as a means to improve relations, but failed the CHA check called for. I perverted his goal by having the faction representative assign a very hard test challenge of bringing a notorious murderer to justice and saying "don't show your face again without him." I made up the murderer right there because I had no idea at the beginning of the session that the player was going to do this or what that interaction would look like. But, the player presented a plausible course of action for the faction with a clear goal (improve my standing) and a clear approach (offer my services). I determined this was a CHA challenge and set the DC as hard due to previous history modified to moderate (DC 15) for a good approach (the PC skillset was valuable to the faction). At stake was the player goal of improved relations. Instead of closing that door on the failure, I elected to make it harder by setting up a hard challenge. That challenge, as an aside, led to a TPK because the PCs decided to split up an charge into multiple different buildings, encounting all of the medium to hard difficulty challenge parts of the murder's gang (thrown together in a few moments using stock NPCs) at the same time and independently. And that was with good intel earned by successful checks investigating. I have a house rule I'm trying out in this game that PCs don't die unless the player says so, but I get to be mean about it. No one chose to die, so I got to be mean. Since this is the first use in the campaign so far, I stuck to undercutting backstories with unwelcome truths and rolling back previous successes reputationally. Oh, and stealing gear. So much gear. *A resolution in the middle system, like, say, Dungeon World, starts with a scene framing a challenge and then goes to player action declarations. The actions are resolved without establishing the precuse fiction of the action, and the result is then used to establish both the fiction of the action and the result. For instance, Dungeon World has an action called Spout Lore. If a player asks what their character knows about something in game, the GM either tells them or can ask for a Spout Lore. The check determines if the action succeeds, partially succeeds, or fails. On any success, the GM is now required to tell the player something interesting about what they asked about. This is important because whatever was asked about must now be important on a success. The GM is obligated to make this thing have importance and tell the player true things about it. On a failure, though, the GM can now make a move against the player, either introducing a new threat that must be addressed or paying off a threat that impacts the PC. Possible examples are being cursed by the runes you're trying to Spout Lore on, or a wandering monster, or even you do know what the runes say but it's really bad and not at all what you hoped. Clearly this us very different from D&D in play and in concept. Every action makes the entire progression of the game fluid. These games react very poorly to preplotting or even drawing out maps before play. Not everyone's cuppa, and that's fine. [/QUOTE]
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