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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 3809753" data-attributes="member: 957">You know, the old crippled wizard is going to have a +6 Base REF save and a +10 BAB.If he is old and crippled then I'm going to assume a -3 minimum DEX and STR mods.  So I'd say that he pretty much isn't going to hit the fighter or avoid the fireball.  And that is before you slap on some circumstance bonuses to account for the absurdity of the "old crippled" example.As to wanting to be able to do everything, I simply reject that notion.  I mean, I'm certain there are some players out there that can get off on being handed everything and then slap themselves on the back for their "accomplishment".  But, lets be honest, you don't need a book for that.  I've played in many many games where the whole point was that the party is facing REAL challenges.  And, quite frequently, they flat out can not overcome the challenge by the direct route.  If I'm not afraid to throw a giant at the party knowing full well that they pretty much can not beat him in a fight, then I'm not going to be afraid to throw a wall the wizard can't climb in their path.  And if you really think that games don't work that way then I'm forced to assume that you haven't the faintest clue what you are really missing out on.   Coming up with solutions that are more thoughtful than "roll to hit" and make three skill checks is the source of the real fun, achievement and sense of connection to a character.  If you want all powerful characters then you can have that now.  Just take your 3X characters and rule that they have 1/2 level ranks in every skill that they don't already have more than that in.  Or just freaking declare that any roll over a 6 is a success in all cases.  Adjust to your own taste.  But if 4E came out with an assumption of every wizard everywhere knows how to climb and hide and swim, then everything that follows will have to be built with that assumption ingrained.  It is a hell of a lot easier to turn up your PCs than it is to turn down the rest of the campaign setting.  So gamers who want to experience actual challenges will pretty much have to turn elsewhere.  So, I'm fairly hopefully optimistic that WotC is well aware of this thinking and won't go alienating a significant portion of their base just to give a separate group something they can have with a simple house rule.</blockquote>

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