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<blockquote data-quote="FourthBear" data-source="post: 3810793" data-attributes="member: 55846">Actually, I would guess that it would be pretty easy for a player to help having his character to get better in such a manner.&nbsp; Just tell the DM &quot;I'd like to forfeit my BAB, hps and Fort and Reflex save bonuses.&nbsp; My character concept is such that they don't become any tougher physically&quot;.&nbsp; Or he could tell the DM that he automatically fails all checks he deems inappropriate.&nbsp; I would think that most DMs have a problem with adding on extra abilities, not sacrificing them for a character concept.&nbsp; I would imagine such character concepts will be rare enough that the core system doesn't need to represent such characters as the default case.&nbsp; They can be handled by the individual DM and player.Now, if the character wants to get something in exchange, then things may need to be negotiated.&nbsp; I'll also note that the probability may be high that you end up with an &quot;eggshell with a hammer&quot; character.&nbsp; But this issue of combat ability increases for mages has existed with every edition of D&amp;D.&nbsp; It's there for the same reason as the Saga skill half-level bonuses, to control the range of numbers between character concepts.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FourthBear, post: 3810793, member: 55846"] Actually, I would guess that it would be pretty easy for a player to help having his character to get better in such a manner. Just tell the DM "I'd like to forfeit my BAB, hps and Fort and Reflex save bonuses. My character concept is such that they don't become any tougher physically". Or he could tell the DM that he automatically fails all checks he deems inappropriate. I would think that most DMs have a problem with adding on extra abilities, not sacrificing them for a character concept. I would imagine such character concepts will be rare enough that the core system doesn't need to represent such characters as the default case. They can be handled by the individual DM and player. Now, if the character wants to get something in exchange, then things may need to be negotiated. I'll also note that the probability may be high that you end up with an "eggshell with a hammer" character. But this issue of combat ability increases for mages has existed with every edition of D&D. It's there for the same reason as the Saga skill half-level bonuses, to control the range of numbers between character concepts. [/QUOTE]

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