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<blockquote data-quote="Zurai" data-source="post: 3815562" data-attributes="member: 52324">Show me how you get 20 extra points on oh, let's say Decipher Script checks, using only the core rules.No synergy bonuses. No magic items that give bonuses to Decipher Script. At most you're going to have +8 on top of the check - and that's under extremely rare circumstances (bard + luckstone + two feats devoted to one skill).The vast majority of your &quot;over NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!&quot; bonus points come from magic items, and in core, only a very few skills have magic items devoted to them. On top of that, very, very few people take Skill Focus and even fewer take the +2/+2 feats. Thus, for the majority of skills, you're looking at a top end of maybe 26 + stat mod.That was never in contention. I don't know why you keep saying it. Although, note that 4E core rules go to level 30, which means that in actuality, the base maximum goes to 25 + stat mod, not 20 + stat mod.OK.OK. What's that got to do with whether the average skill check DC will go up?Because a DC of 15 is still a challenge for a lot of characters at level 20 in 3.5, and thus still a valid DC to use at that point in time. A DC of 15 is no challenge at all to any level 20 character in 4E, let alone a level 30 one, and thus really is not a valid DC to use at that point in time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zurai, post: 3815562, member: 52324"] Show me how you get 20 extra points on oh, let's say Decipher Script checks, using only the core rules. No synergy bonuses. No magic items that give bonuses to Decipher Script. At most you're going to have +8 on top of the check - and that's under extremely rare circumstances (bard + luckstone + two feats devoted to one skill). The vast majority of your "over NINE THOUSAND!!!!!!" bonus points come from magic items, and in core, only a very few skills have magic items devoted to them. On top of that, very, very few people take Skill Focus and even fewer take the +2/+2 feats. Thus, for the [b]majority[/b] of skills, you're looking at a top end of maybe 26 + stat mod. That was never in contention. I don't know why you keep saying it. Although, note that 4E core rules go to level 30, which means that in actuality, the base maximum goes to 25 + stat mod, not 20 + stat mod. OK. OK. What's that got to do with whether the average skill check DC will go up? Because a DC of 15 is still a challenge for a lot of characters at level 20 in 3.5, and thus still a valid DC to use at that point in time. A DC of 15 is no challenge at all to any level 20 character in 4E, let alone a level 30 one, and thus really is not a valid DC to use at that point in time. [/QUOTE]

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