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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 3817047" data-attributes="member: 20805">Quote=Nifft]Yes, they should. All human beings should be capable of climbing, jumping and swimming.</blockquote>Yes they should!{sorry, failed Will save <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />}But seriously, I think the "No they shouldn't" side of this argument is missing a couple things:A> SWSA Skill system is a 'preview', 4E may not work 'exactly' like it. My guess is that WoTC will change the system to more properly reflect a DnD approach to the game.B> The SWSA Skill system has a mechanic where you cannot accomplish some skill tasks unless 'Trained', one example above was 'Take 10'C> Adventure design is much easier if the max variance in skills is 20 points. With this spread, as noted upthread much more elequently than I can, the DM can challenge *all* members of the party. The current system does not enable that... - which means either the GM balances for the skill-monkey and everyone else relies on magic, or the GM balances for the "What is the Ride skill for?" guy and the player who focused on Ride feels like he/she wasted the points and wont ever do that again. {coming from a player who once had a Ride focused character, tons of skill points and feats that ended up having absolutely *zero* effect in play. DM marginalized the Ride skill in order to enable the rest of the group...  I know, bad DM.. but the system could limit this.}The way I see it panning out: Levels 1 - 10, normal natural obstacles like cliffs and such are part of encounter design -  You must climb up the cliff to get the McGuffin Levels 11 - 20, challenges on the natural obstacles are part of encounter design -  You must climb the cliff to get the McGuffin, but watch out for the Harpies Levels 21 - 30, Natural obstacles are no longer part of encounter design - You must climb the Cliffs of Despair, which are located on the plane of 'X'If you dislike the 'super hero' aspect of this scaling as I do.. simply stick to the mid and lower levels.Oh... and just a thought for reference. In LoTR, Frodo and Samwise.. two Hobbits from the pastures of the Shire, ended up climbing a very difficult path in the mountains of Mordor....[/QUOTE]

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