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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Update: Sorcerer/MotAO/ES (Air) for RttToEE.
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<blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 453264" data-attributes="member: 3146"><p>There are two problems with your planned progression and MotAO and Elemental Savant (Air).</p><p></p><p>1. You don't have Arcane Preparation or Cooperative Spell which are prereqs for MotAO</p><p></p><p>2. You don't have any [Electricity] or summoning spells in the list--and you need both for Elemental Savant (Air).</p><p></p><p>3. You can't have energy substitution at 1st level--it requires another metamagic feat and 5 ranks of Knowledge:Arcana</p><p></p><p>I'd recommend switching up for the following feat progression:</p><p></p><p>1. Arcane Preparation, Extend Spell</p><p>3. Sculpt Spell (this will give you a flexibility that is essential for the use of Lightning bolt and will be helpful with all of your other area effect spells.</p><p>6. Cooperative Spell</p><p>8. (MotAO bonus feat) Elemental Substitution (electricity) if you're willing to forgoe spell focus or wait until 12th level to start on Elemental Savant levels, you can afford another element here.</p><p>9. If you want spell focus, this is the first place I would think to take it. With an 18 cha (20 by this point before Eagle's Splendor (from the cleric) or a cloak of charisma, your DCs are going to be quite high even without it though. Spell penetration might actually be a better choice.</p><p>12. Greater Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Focus</p><p></p><p>I noticed that you have heighten spell on your feat list there. I'd drop that one like a hot potato. The only spells you have that you'd likely want to heighten are Magic Missile and Fireball--and that's only to get through minor globes of invulnerability. If you want DC, spell focus (evocation) is better in every way. In terms of damage dealt, you're also almost certainly better off using Empower spell to get 50% more damage than heightening the spell by 2 levels to bump the DC by 2. (50% of 150% is still 75%--assuming the foe makes the save). Heighten spell is mostly useful for sorcerors focussed on things like Charm Person, Charm Monster, Suggestion, Hold Person, etc which don't benefit from Empowering and do nothing on a successful save.</p><p></p><p>I recommended Extend spell because at higher levels, it's a great way to spend a few of your high level spell slots. Cast a double extended Energy Buffer before you go to bed and you're protected for 3 days without using a spell slot for it. The same is true for attribute buffs or Greater Magic Weapon, etc.</p><p></p><p>Getting 3 useful electricity spells is going to be a bit of a challenge. You could technically use the Spell Pool to cast shocking grasp, summon monster I, lesser electric orb, and lightning bolt and be qualified by MotAO 2 but that seems really cheesy.</p><p></p><p>I'd recommend starting out with lesser Electric Orb at 5th level instead of True Strike. It's electricity and shield doesn't stop it Unfortunately you won't have point blank or precise shot but some sacrifices have to be made. . . .</p><p></p><p>If you go with sculpt spell, I'd pick up burning hands as your 3rd level spell. Sculpted Burning hands, as discussed on another thread is a simply brutal 2nd level attack spell. At 4th level, that's 4d4 points of fire damage in a 60 foot cone. That'll really help your party survive until you get lightning bolt.</p><p></p><p>Your second spell is obviously Lightning Bolt at 6th level. With sculpt spell, this can be a lightning ball if you need it to be or a cone or nearly any shape you like. (It's more flexible than fireball in this way since it can also be a 5 foot or 10 foot line if you don't sculpt it).</p><p></p><p>If you can stand the wait, I'd make Chain lightning the last electricity spell but then you wouldn't start on elemental savant until 13th level. Otherwise, I think you'll have to bite the bullet and pick up shocking grasp or bite the 4th level bullet and get Electric Orb.</p><p></p><p>You'll also need a summoning spell. I'd go with one that will see long term use. Summon Monster III is good since you can get the celestial bison which has DR and will soak up attacks for quite a few levels as well as the fiendish dire bat which is invaluable for finding and destroying invisible and/or flying foes. Summon Monster IV can get you multiples of either creature, or Fiendish dire wolf, dire ape, Celestial Lion, or Lantern Archon (whose spell like Aid at will ability and energy blasts will always have potential use). Summon Monster V gets you a celestial dire lion, fiendish tiger or dire wolverine, a celestial brown bear, Hound Archon, or Celestial Pegasus (which will give you an instant flying mount if you need one). Summon Monster VI is probably the most versatile one--Xorns, Celestial Dire Bears (melee combat machines with DR 10/+3), Avoral Guardinal (True Seeing at Will, Lay on Hands, etc.) and Celestial Unicorns (which can cast a variety of curative spells and Neutralize Poison, etc). Unfortunately, this is also a 6th level spell so between it and Chain Lightning you'd be waiting until 14th level to start taking Elemental Savant levels.</p><p></p><p>In any event, since you're going to be taking MotAO levels, you should stay away from utility spells like Rope Trick and long duration buffs like Cat's Grace. If you need those, odds are you can afford to wait several rounds for them to arrive so just rely on Spell pool for them. A spell pool Cat's Grace, Rope Trick, or Greater Magic Weapon is just as good as having one as a known spell. OTOH, you're going to be in trouble if you wait for a magic missile, or see invisibility spell to arrive from the pool.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Elder-Basilisk, post: 453264, member: 3146"] There are two problems with your planned progression and MotAO and Elemental Savant (Air). 1. You don't have Arcane Preparation or Cooperative Spell which are prereqs for MotAO 2. You don't have any [Electricity] or summoning spells in the list--and you need both for Elemental Savant (Air). 3. You can't have energy substitution at 1st level--it requires another metamagic feat and 5 ranks of Knowledge:Arcana I'd recommend switching up for the following feat progression: 1. Arcane Preparation, Extend Spell 3. Sculpt Spell (this will give you a flexibility that is essential for the use of Lightning bolt and will be helpful with all of your other area effect spells. 6. Cooperative Spell 8. (MotAO bonus feat) Elemental Substitution (electricity) if you're willing to forgoe spell focus or wait until 12th level to start on Elemental Savant levels, you can afford another element here. 9. If you want spell focus, this is the first place I would think to take it. With an 18 cha (20 by this point before Eagle's Splendor (from the cleric) or a cloak of charisma, your DCs are going to be quite high even without it though. Spell penetration might actually be a better choice. 12. Greater Spell Penetration or Greater Spell Focus I noticed that you have heighten spell on your feat list there. I'd drop that one like a hot potato. The only spells you have that you'd likely want to heighten are Magic Missile and Fireball--and that's only to get through minor globes of invulnerability. If you want DC, spell focus (evocation) is better in every way. In terms of damage dealt, you're also almost certainly better off using Empower spell to get 50% more damage than heightening the spell by 2 levels to bump the DC by 2. (50% of 150% is still 75%--assuming the foe makes the save). Heighten spell is mostly useful for sorcerors focussed on things like Charm Person, Charm Monster, Suggestion, Hold Person, etc which don't benefit from Empowering and do nothing on a successful save. I recommended Extend spell because at higher levels, it's a great way to spend a few of your high level spell slots. Cast a double extended Energy Buffer before you go to bed and you're protected for 3 days without using a spell slot for it. The same is true for attribute buffs or Greater Magic Weapon, etc. Getting 3 useful electricity spells is going to be a bit of a challenge. You could technically use the Spell Pool to cast shocking grasp, summon monster I, lesser electric orb, and lightning bolt and be qualified by MotAO 2 but that seems really cheesy. I'd recommend starting out with lesser Electric Orb at 5th level instead of True Strike. It's electricity and shield doesn't stop it Unfortunately you won't have point blank or precise shot but some sacrifices have to be made. . . . If you go with sculpt spell, I'd pick up burning hands as your 3rd level spell. Sculpted Burning hands, as discussed on another thread is a simply brutal 2nd level attack spell. At 4th level, that's 4d4 points of fire damage in a 60 foot cone. That'll really help your party survive until you get lightning bolt. Your second spell is obviously Lightning Bolt at 6th level. With sculpt spell, this can be a lightning ball if you need it to be or a cone or nearly any shape you like. (It's more flexible than fireball in this way since it can also be a 5 foot or 10 foot line if you don't sculpt it). If you can stand the wait, I'd make Chain lightning the last electricity spell but then you wouldn't start on elemental savant until 13th level. Otherwise, I think you'll have to bite the bullet and pick up shocking grasp or bite the 4th level bullet and get Electric Orb. You'll also need a summoning spell. I'd go with one that will see long term use. Summon Monster III is good since you can get the celestial bison which has DR and will soak up attacks for quite a few levels as well as the fiendish dire bat which is invaluable for finding and destroying invisible and/or flying foes. Summon Monster IV can get you multiples of either creature, or Fiendish dire wolf, dire ape, Celestial Lion, or Lantern Archon (whose spell like Aid at will ability and energy blasts will always have potential use). Summon Monster V gets you a celestial dire lion, fiendish tiger or dire wolverine, a celestial brown bear, Hound Archon, or Celestial Pegasus (which will give you an instant flying mount if you need one). Summon Monster VI is probably the most versatile one--Xorns, Celestial Dire Bears (melee combat machines with DR 10/+3), Avoral Guardinal (True Seeing at Will, Lay on Hands, etc.) and Celestial Unicorns (which can cast a variety of curative spells and Neutralize Poison, etc). Unfortunately, this is also a 6th level spell so between it and Chain Lightning you'd be waiting until 14th level to start taking Elemental Savant levels. In any event, since you're going to be taking MotAO levels, you should stay away from utility spells like Rope Trick and long duration buffs like Cat's Grace. If you need those, odds are you can afford to wait several rounds for them to arrive so just rely on Spell pool for them. A spell pool Cat's Grace, Rope Trick, or Greater Magic Weapon is just as good as having one as a known spell. OTOH, you're going to be in trouble if you wait for a magic missile, or see invisibility spell to arrive from the pool. [/QUOTE]
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Update: Sorcerer/MotAO/ES (Air) for RttToEE.
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