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<blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 6511255" data-attributes="member: 31506">Heh, the Eye and Hand thought they were all boss until my fighter/cleric dropped a creeping doom on them. &quot;Ohh, I'm all scary with my whopping 60 HP and Eyebite... Oh god, the bees! They're stinging my giant eyeball head!&quot; Haha, good times, good times. Part of the problem is with bounded accuracy and crappy save scaling, its really hard to kill a high level group. Its part of people's complaints with Tiamat in the super module. A town of peons with bows could kill her fairly quickly. As I see it, 3rd edition was the mathy spreadsheet edition, where you had to justify every piece of a monster. 5th edition is more back to the &quot;f it&quot; style of previous editions. If you want to do the intro, I'd run a few balanced high level set pieces, to let them get a feel for how capable the party that Vecna takes out is compared to the much weaker PC's that they'll be running in the adventure. &quot;If the guys who killed 2 balors in 2 rounds died, what chance do we have?!&quot;Then just maul them with Vecna. I wasn't joking about his lair action of &quot;gain 2000 temporary hit points&quot;. You can also give him an ability that makes all present make a Con saving throw. The person who gets the lowest total dies. The initial Vecna fight is about railroading a TPK. You can waste time stating up the 40th level NPC required to guarantee the TPK, or you can just handwave it, roll a few dice for show and say &quot;rocks fall, everyone dies. Now the real adventure starts&quot;. After all, the party never actually beats Vecna in Vecna Lives directly, they just summon Iuz to do everything for them at the end, so his stats don't ever matter. Vecna has the special ability &quot;unvincable&quot; until the party achieves the non HP dependent win condition. Its how demigods roll.The rest of the adventure adapts fairly straightforward IIRC, assuming you run it with lower level characters to limit spell solutions and beef up the Hand and Eye significantly (to the chagrin of my 14 year old self).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jefe Bergenstein, post: 6511255, member: 31506"] Heh, the Eye and Hand thought they were all boss until my fighter/cleric dropped a creeping doom on them. "Ohh, I'm all scary with my whopping 60 HP and Eyebite... Oh god, the bees! They're stinging my giant eyeball head!" Haha, good times, good times. Part of the problem is with bounded accuracy and crappy save scaling, its really hard to kill a high level group. Its part of people's complaints with Tiamat in the super module. A town of peons with bows could kill her fairly quickly. As I see it, 3rd edition was the mathy spreadsheet edition, where you had to justify every piece of a monster. 5th edition is more back to the "f it" style of previous editions. If you want to do the intro, I'd run a few balanced high level set pieces, to let them get a feel for how capable the party that Vecna takes out is compared to the much weaker PC's that they'll be running in the adventure. "If the guys who killed 2 balors in 2 rounds died, what chance do we have?!" Then just maul them with Vecna. I wasn't joking about his lair action of "gain 2000 temporary hit points". You can also give him an ability that makes all present make a Con saving throw. The person who gets the lowest total dies. The initial Vecna fight is about railroading a TPK. You can waste time stating up the 40th level NPC required to guarantee the TPK, or you can just handwave it, roll a few dice for show and say "rocks fall, everyone dies. Now the real adventure starts". After all, the party never actually beats Vecna in Vecna Lives directly, they just summon Iuz to do everything for them at the end, so his stats don't ever matter. Vecna has the special ability "unvincable" until the party achieves the non HP dependent win condition. Its how demigods roll. The rest of the adventure adapts fairly straightforward IIRC, assuming you run it with lower level characters to limit spell solutions and beef up the Hand and Eye significantly (to the chagrin of my 14 year old self). [/QUOTE]

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