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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pascale" data-source="post: 4911677" data-attributes="member: 84899">I agree that ToH is the anti-thesis of 4e.  And the system, as designed and released, simply won't be able to do justice to ToH.  I have resigned myself to having to house-rule-DM-foo to get the feel and spirit of ToH right.  I still want to do as fiathful a job translating ToH properly, which means I will need a way to make single shot traps, like pits and the like as deadly as I can.  To that end I've decided to double and even triple damge expression, while keeping the DCs all at the hardest diffiuclty advised in the DMG.  As for the slow acting things, like poison, I'll go with attacks versus fort and then have take away healing surges, and for endurance checks or loose more.  Further to that end the pioson effects will stack, so if you fall in spiked pit trap and get 5 spikes, thats 5 separate attacks, each capable of removing a healing surge, every minute.  The instant kill stuff, like the server of anihaltion is also really easy-you step in that you are instantly destroyed, no attack roll no save, just gone.  And that is definately in the spirit of ToH, a wrong/bad choice can and will kill you.  the way to aviod it is to not make that chioce. I disagree that the point of ToH is to be an excersize in futility.  It is hard, and in places unfair.  But thats not the point.  Hell if that was the point I'd through them up against party +20 encounters all day long.  No, TOH isn't about a masochistic romp through suicide park to see just many times one can die.  Although if thats your thing...  The point of ToH is to test yourself against the best.  It's about earning the victory, and truly earning it.  Its about problem solving and working your way through puzzles that are really deadly and that the wrong answer is very painful. I appriate that poeple are suggesting some truly devilish traps and things that show of 4e's conditoonal and ongoing effects.  But that isn't the point of the excersize either.  I could do that, and more.  But then I wouldn't be updating or running ToH.  I'd just be recycling a map.  And that just defeats the hoile purpase of updating ToH, I might as well just make my own dungeon at that point. I know that WotC is planning on releasing something called ToH.  But I also know that it will be a poor proximation at best.  Frankly the is no way a WotC will be able to do anything like ToH.  They have successfully cast the ritual WotC's Mass Gygax removal, and while it did produce 4e it also precludes any form of Gygaxian D&D with out total house ruling.  Again ToH is not heroic fantasy.  It is not about Hereos triumphing over the evil Demi Lich Acererack.  ToH is a gritty, brutish and tough.  It is hereos barely surviving, or not at all.  It is about hard thinking and hard nocks, where single bad turn spells desastor.  You make it through ToH and thats something to be proud of. yes I've heard about the KoSF and the impossible crap in there, but there is a difference between that and what ToH is about.  That is just plain silly encounter becuase the designer wasn't thinking.  Again any idiot can make suicide park with impossible encounters.  Thats not ToH.</blockquote>

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