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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jaeger" data-source="post: 8677769" data-attributes="member: 27996">Well the problem with those games is that while they did try to compete with Vamp/WoD - They did so during its heyday, and did not stick around long enough to take advantage of its current slide.Being a technically better rules set is not enough to overcome the first mover advantage. Especially since I don't think they had sufficient supplement output to build their player base. And now to a man they are all gone.The right idea, but are they going to be able to put out 3-4 supplements a year to be a 'supported' game system that will draw market share?Probably not...  So Chronicles of Darkness and V5 will continue keep the remaining fanbase by retreading the WW WoD back catalogue.Urban Shadows is not a bad take at all. Its take on the supernatural is a really good way to 'reimagine' the WoD. The problem it has is the inherent limitations of the PbTA system, and lack of supplements to really compete with CoD.</blockquote>