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<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 267940" data-attributes="member: 141">I would quibble a bit on some of those counter-examples.The ones based on summoning are activated a bit faster (1 action instead of one full round), but are less flexible; the critter is specified ahead of time.&nbsp; If someone researched a variant of Monster Summoning VI that only summoned barbarians, I could see it having a faster casting time.&nbsp; They don't seem to be obviously more powerful than the base spell.Mulrynd's spoon is a diminished version of Create Food and Water.&nbsp; It doesn't create food at a distance, it creates food for only 4 people (instead of 3/level), and the food isn't as good (&quot;wet cardboard&quot; as opposed to &quot;simple fare... rather bland.&quot;)Orb of Storms says &quot;access a control weather spell.&quot;&nbsp; Would you allow the weather to change instantly (i.e. in 1 round), or manifest over 10 minutes?&nbsp; I would choose the latter option.Robe of Stars emulates a limited version of plane shift- the user (and no-one else) is translated physically to the Astral Plane.&nbsp; It does not create an astral duplicate, as astral projection does.&nbsp; Plane shift, of course, has a 1 action casting time.Quaal's Feather token is a legitimate counter-example- it creates living things (even animals or animated objects), and can create permanent life (the oak tree).&nbsp; This is significantly beyond the power of major creation.Mirror of Mental Prowess is more limited than commune in some ways, better in others (no xp cost).&nbsp; This item appears to be exceptional, however.Headband of Intellect/Periapt of Wisdom do not replicate their base spells.&nbsp; If fox's cunning and owl's wisdom had been in the PHB, I strongly suspect they would have been the pre-req's.So Quaal's Feather Token I'll grant; and there is definitely something peculiar about the Mirror of Mental Prowess.&nbsp; Among other things, it prompted my original question.&nbsp; For one thing, what is a clerical spell doing as a pre-requisite for what appears to be a wizard oriented item?&nbsp; I would have substituted legend lore for commune.Cheers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 267940, member: 141"] I would quibble a bit on some of those counter-examples. The ones based on summoning are activated a bit faster (1 action instead of one full round), but are less flexible; the critter is specified ahead of time. If someone researched a variant of Monster Summoning VI that only summoned barbarians, I could see it having a faster casting time. They don't seem to be obviously more powerful than the base spell. Mulrynd's spoon is a diminished version of Create Food and Water. It doesn't create food at a distance, it creates food for only 4 people (instead of 3/level), and the food isn't as good ("wet cardboard" as opposed to "simple fare... rather bland.") Orb of Storms says "access a [i]control weather[/i] spell." Would you allow the weather to change instantly (i.e. in 1 round), or manifest over 10 minutes? I would choose the latter option. Robe of Stars emulates a limited version of [i]plane shift[/i]- the user (and no-one else) is translated physically to the Astral Plane. It does not create an astral duplicate, as [i]astral projection[/i] does. [i]Plane shift[/i], of course, has a 1 action casting time. Quaal's Feather token is a legitimate counter-example- it creates living things (even animals or animated objects), and can create permanent life (the oak tree). This is significantly beyond the power of [i]major creation[/i]. Mirror of Mental Prowess is more limited than [i]commune[/i] in some ways, better in others (no xp cost). This item appears to be exceptional, however. Headband of Intellect/Periapt of Wisdom do not replicate their base spells. If [i]fox's cunning[/i] and [i]owl's wisdom[/i] had been in the PHB, I strongly suspect they would have been the pre-req's. So Quaal's Feather Token I'll grant; and there is definitely something peculiar about the Mirror of Mental Prowess. Among other things, it prompted my original question. For one thing, what is a clerical spell doing as a pre-requisite for what appears to be a wizard oriented item? I would have substituted [i]legend lore[/i] for [i]commune[/i]. Cheers. [/QUOTE]

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