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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Steverooo" data-source="post: 2047830" data-attributes="member: 9410">The Intuit Rope skill is nerfed, and has always been so.  The problem is that it is done wrong, and doing it right requires a knowledge of knots that most people aren't willing to develop simply for  use in the game...In 3.0e, my solution (which WotC chose not to accept) was to remove the skill.  Knots involved with climbing (such as the Bowline, mentioned in "tie a knot around yourself with one hand") were tied with the Climb skill, while those used in shelter-building, etc., were tied via Survival.  Hitting the target projection with a grapnel was done using BAB.The real problem that I see with Use Rope, however (besides its general uselessness), is that all knots (apparently) are DC:15.  This is clearly ridiculous!  (And off we go on a rant about knot-lore!)A rope has two ends...  The "free" (or "working") end, and the "standing" end, which is usually tied off.  When you bring the free end alongside the standing end, the U-shaped part is known as a "bight".  When you cross the free end over or under the standing part, you have formed a loop...  Now, pass the free end through the loop, and you have the simplest knot of all, the Overhand Knot.The Overhand Knot is so simple and easy to tie, that it is (IMHO) about DC:2, not DC:15.  You MIGHT be able to fail to tie it correctly, on a fumble, but that's about it.  This, IMHO, is the REAL problem with the Use Rope skill...  Knots need different ratings, and different skills that they can be tied with (Profession: Sailor giving lots of knots used aboard ship, Profession: Driver giving those used in hauling freight (such as the Stevedore's knot), as well as those used in hitching horses (as would anyone with the Ride skill), etc.Of course, once we start doing that, the PHB (or .PDF on knots) becomes a knots book!  Now, every knot needs a DC, list of skills which can be used to tie it, catogory or categories into which it fits (climbing, fishing, freighting, hitching, sailing, etc).  Simply providing a list of DCs is not enough...  It makes little or no sense to provide a table saying:Knot ....................... DCOverhand .................. 2Half-Hitch .................. 2Granny Knot ............... 2Blackwall Hitch ............ 3Square Knot ............... 3Double Overhand ......... 4Marlinspike Hitch ......... 4Slippery Hitch ............. 4Two Half Hitches ......... 4Figure Eight Knot ......... 5Figure Eight Double ...... 5Overhand Bow ............. 5Surgeon's Knot ............ 5Bow Knot .................. 10Clove Hitch ................ 10Fisherman's Bend ........ 10Lark's Head ................ 10Running Knot .............. 10Sailor's Knot ............... 10Sheepshank ............... 10Sheet Bend ................ 10Stevedore's Knot ......... 10Timber Hitch ............... 10Miller's Knot ................ 11Double Carrich Bend ..... 12Lariat Loop ................. 12Midshipman's Hitch ....... 12Sheet Bend Double ....... 12Taut-line Hitch ............ 12Tiller Hitch .................. 12Chain Hitch ................. 13Rolling Hitch ................ 13Bowline ...................... 15Bowline on Bight .......... 15Cat's Paw ................... 15Fisherman's Knot .......... 15Fisherman's Eye ........... 15Halyard Bend ............... 15Hitching Tie ................. 15Killich Hitch .................. 15The above is nearly useless, without an explanation of the uses for, and directions on tying, each type of knot!  Besides, most people can tie their shoes (even under pressure), but couldn't tie other knots with a DC of 10 or less, because they've never needed to learn!  (With this system, taking 10 would allow you to tie quite a few knots that most people wouldn't know how to, but at least all commoners would be able to tie their shoes... if they had any!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Also, as you gained ranks, you would automatically be able to tie certain knots without needing to roll, as you'd be unable to fail!)And besides all of  THAT, you will very quickly find out that the SAME knot has many different names, depending upon who uses it, and for what...  The "Taut-line Hitch", for instance, is often called a "Ladder Hitch", by Firemen, and is nearly the same as the "Sailor's Knot".Worst of all, of course, is the FACT that the above table is TOTALLY arbitrary, based solely upon my own views of how difficult it is to remember how to tie a particular knot, and not upon any real, objective basis...Even if we wrote an entire .PDF on knots, their uses, what skills could be used to tie them, and how difficult they are to tie, the kicker is:Ask yourself this question: What does it add to the game to have PCs succeed or fail to tie a knot?Oh, sure, you can require a Use Rope check to tie off a rope before climbing, and then tell the player that their PC dies when the rope comes undone, and they fall to their doom... but, personally, I don't see that this adds anything to the game.  YMMV.IMHO, it is better to simply say that all climbers know climbing knots, all survivalists know survival-shelter-building knots, all drovers know hitching and freighting knots, all sailors know sailor & fishermen knots, etc.Anything else is too much work for too little gain (and don't even get me started on the DC of the Gordian Knot!)...Ciao!</blockquote>

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