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<blockquote data-quote="Sir Brennen" data-source="post: 6380149" data-attributes="member: 553"><p>No, I don't think "proficient" with a crowbar should be a thing. It already gives you advantage on applicable rolls. Anybody can use it, and it's not a sophisticated enough piece of equipment that extra training can make you significantly more skilled than an average "untrained" person to merit being called "proficient".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd argue that Climber's Kits and Fishing Tackle you do apply a roll to: Athletics and Survival, respectively. So they are rather relevant. However, you can climb or fish without the equipment in question, so not Tools by the game definition (though I might give disadvantage to fish without equipment, and to climbing sheer surfaces without a kit). You can also break stuff without a toolbar.</p><p></p><p>But again, rope IS more like lockpicks... you have to have that tool to do the job, and you can be trained to be better at it than someone untrained. It may be a hairpin or some jungle vine, but you need the tool in some form.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Maybe rather than go more granular to get to back to something similar to an older edition's rule, go <em>broader</em> utilizing new rules in this edition: backgrounds. You're a Sailor or Bounty Hunter? Sure, add your proficiency bonus to tying that guy up to the DC. This approach then could be applied to many situations on the fly, without having to create a bunch of new Tool proficiencies that players have to split their limited proficiencies between. Also remember, most checks of this nature would have a relevant attribute to the proficiency as well. One could argue Dex or Int for tying someone up. But then you'd need to be pretty judicious with the base DC.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sir Brennen, post: 6380149, member: 553"] No, I don't think "proficient" with a crowbar should be a thing. It already gives you advantage on applicable rolls. Anybody can use it, and it's not a sophisticated enough piece of equipment that extra training can make you significantly more skilled than an average "untrained" person to merit being called "proficient". I'd argue that Climber's Kits and Fishing Tackle you do apply a roll to: Athletics and Survival, respectively. So they are rather relevant. However, you can climb or fish without the equipment in question, so not Tools by the game definition (though I might give disadvantage to fish without equipment, and to climbing sheer surfaces without a kit). You can also break stuff without a toolbar. But again, rope IS more like lockpicks... you have to have that tool to do the job, and you can be trained to be better at it than someone untrained. It may be a hairpin or some jungle vine, but you need the tool in some form. Maybe rather than go more granular to get to back to something similar to an older edition's rule, go [i]broader[/i] utilizing new rules in this edition: backgrounds. You're a Sailor or Bounty Hunter? Sure, add your proficiency bonus to tying that guy up to the DC. This approach then could be applied to many situations on the fly, without having to create a bunch of new Tool proficiencies that players have to split their limited proficiencies between. Also remember, most checks of this nature would have a relevant attribute to the proficiency as well. One could argue Dex or Int for tying someone up. But then you'd need to be pretty judicious with the base DC. [/QUOTE]
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