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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6869408" data-attributes="member: 1465">Ah but here is the crux of the matter <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The problem which I (and the OP) have is with skills, and has a lot to do with the fact that &quot;anyone can try anything&quot;. The swinginess of d20 in skill checks is good when it makes you unexpectedly (&quot;heroically&quot;) succeed, but it also works the other way around. You might think that it is fun, for the hero to occasionally &quot;heroically&quot; fail. The problems are:- excessive swinginess can make it happen too often- even when it happens, another PC can pick up the task, and negate the failure (this depends on the skill, of course)Dialing on the DC doesn't completely fix the problem, because if you make it easier for the trained character, you'll also make it easier for the untrained, and viceversa. It's like pulling the blanket either left or right, but the other side gets cold.Just think of this: you wrote &quot;Lots of die rolls that doesn't really upset expectations isn't D&amp;D's thing.&quot;, but the problem is that whenever the expert fails, everybody else can try (or even the same person can try again) and practically every time you do get lots of die rolls which in fact make sure the expectations aren't upset.Using different dice doesn't fix this problem for good, but at least it makes the proficiency bonus matter a bit more, so this is already an improvement to merely adjusting the DC.5e already has a couple of mechanics to help: expertise and the Rogue's ability to default to a minimum skill check result, plus group skill checks.At the same time, an inherent problem is in the skill system covering wildly different things, most notably both stuff that everybody must check for (e.g. the whole party rolling checks to avoid falling or to sneak) and stuff that require a single person's success to work (e.g. knowledge, search, lockpicking), which work fundamentally different.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 6869408, member: 1465"] Ah but here is the crux of the matter :) The problem which I (and the OP) have is with [I]skills[/I], and has a lot to do with the fact that "anyone can try anything". The swinginess of d20 in skill checks is good when it makes you unexpectedly ("heroically") succeed, but it also works the other way around. You might think that it is fun, for the hero to occasionally "heroically" fail. The problems are: - excessive swinginess can make it happen too often - even when it happens, another PC can pick up the task, and negate the failure (this depends on the skill, of course) Dialing on the DC doesn't completely fix the problem, because if you make it easier for the trained character, you'll also make it easier for the untrained, and viceversa. It's like pulling the blanket either left or right, but the other side gets cold. Just think of this: you wrote "Lots of die rolls that doesn't really upset expectations isn't D&D's thing.", but the problem is that whenever the expert fails, everybody else can try (or even the same person can try again) and [I]practically[/I] every time you [I]do[/I] get lots of die rolls which in fact make sure the expectations aren't upset. Using different dice doesn't fix this problem for good, but at least it makes the proficiency bonus matter a bit more, so this is already an improvement to merely adjusting the DC. 5e already has a couple of mechanics to help: expertise and the Rogue's ability to default to a minimum skill check result, plus group skill checks. At the same time, an inherent problem is in the skill system covering wildly different things, most notably both stuff that everybody must check for (e.g. the whole party rolling checks to avoid falling or to sneak) and stuff that require a single person's success to work (e.g. knowledge, search, lockpicking), which work fundamentally different. [/QUOTE]

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