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<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 6718532" data-attributes="member: 6799649">Good post. Here are a couple of other things to consider:-The Tavern Brawler feat takes away the '-2 to -6 to attack'.If you can choose the shield to be a (weapon) for the purposes of TWF, and also choose the shield to be a (not weapon) for the purposes of the Dueling fighting style (and we know that this is the case since you CAN use a shield with Dueling style), it must be noted that there is no rule limiting how often you can switch designations like this.Although the shield can only be EITHER a (weapon) OR a (not weapon) at any given instant, it's no problem to make the shield a (not weapon) when you attack with your sword (to get the +2 Dueling bonus) and then in the same round make the shield a (weapon) so that you can use it to execute the bonus action attack generated by your first attack.If you allow shields to actually be (weapons) just because there is a rule which allows you to attack with (not weapons), then the results of comparing sword &amp; board versus two swords in TWF with Dual Wielder and Tavern Brawler (and Dueling) is:-S&amp;B = +2 to +5 AC (even without the +1 to AC from Dual Wielder), d8 + d4 +2 = 9 damageTwin Swords = +1 to AC, 2d8 = 9 damage.The same damage, +1 to +4 better AC. This cannot be intended.The solution is simply to enforce the rules. The improvised weapons rule allows you to attack with a (not weapon) without turning it into a (weapon). When the rules say (weapon), they mean it(!). TWF requires (weapons). Problem solved.If you want to shield bash, you can do so. But not using TWF.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 6718532, member: 6799649"] Good post. Here are a couple of other things to consider:- The Tavern Brawler feat takes away the '-2 to -6 to attack'. If you can choose the shield to be a (weapon) for the purposes of TWF, and also choose the shield to be a (not weapon) for the purposes of the Dueling fighting style (and we know that this is the case since you CAN use a shield with Dueling style), it must be noted that there is no rule limiting how often you can switch designations like this. Although the shield can only be EITHER a (weapon) OR a (not weapon) at any given instant, it's no problem to make the shield a (not weapon) when you attack with your sword (to get the +2 Dueling bonus) and then in the same round make the shield a (weapon) so that you can use it to execute the bonus action attack generated by your first attack. If you allow shields to actually [b]be[/b] (weapons) just because there is a rule which allows you to attack with (not weapons), then the results of comparing sword & board versus two swords in TWF with Dual Wielder and Tavern Brawler (and Dueling) is:- S&B = +2 to +5 AC (even without the +1 to AC from Dual Wielder), d8 + d4 +2 = 9 damage Twin Swords = +1 to AC, 2d8 = 9 damage. The same damage, +1 to +4 better AC. This cannot be intended. The solution is simply to enforce the rules. The improvised weapons rule allows you to attack with a (not weapon) without turning it into a (weapon). When the rules say (weapon), they mean it(!). TWF requires (weapons). Problem solved. If you want to shield bash, you can do so. But not using TWF. [/QUOTE]

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