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*Dungeons & Dragons
Using Action Surge to cast spells in 2024
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<blockquote data-quote="BenjaminPey" data-source="post: 9761463" data-attributes="member: 7039344"><p>Darn this discussion moves fast. I don't think me going back four or five pages up-thread would do any good, so I'll just summarize what I personnaly get out of it.</p><p></p><p>I mostly agree with [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] that ttrpg rules are not meant to be parsed with such a high degree of technicality, even though there was in 2024 an intent to make them more so. I stand by my first assessment that all of this should be first and foremost rooted in the fiction, and that if you play with this in mind most if not all of the supposed loopholes or the perceived vagueness vanish. (Yes, even in the Stealth rule.)</p><p></p><p>In the "Actions as ressource and actions as things you do" debate, and the "is Ready an Action or an action?" question, I think the simplest explanation works best. Ready is a capital <em>a</em> Action. It is then allowed in Action Surge (but not with the Haste spell!).</p><p></p><p>I also think that it should be a small <em>a</em> action, as to be rooted in the fiction, and for this you need triggers to be meaningful. Not because silly triggers could allow you to act out of your turn in an Action-economy based game. That I don't care much, because it won't change a thing and, surprise: nobody does it. But because otherwise, if you allow Ready to just be an Action, without any bearing in the fiction, it simply becomes a way to circumvent these quite clear boundaries the game imposes on the kind of action (small <em>a</em>) your character can take, according to the rules and the fiction: a fighter mostly fights, their Attack action does <em>this </em>and <em>that</em>, a rogue can't sneak twice, etc. That, this "Ready as an Action but not an action", to me, goes against the intent of the rules, and is not even fully RAW-compliant, as this lenghty discussion showed in my view. Ready is an Action, but must be an action, too. It being a container for other actions shouldn't change that. I don't see a single reason why it should.</p><p></p><p>Hence, Ready being an Action and an action, casting a spell with a Ready action should inherit all the explicit limitations put on casting a spell with a Magic action.</p><p></p><p>That the Eldritch Knight, a magical fighter, can cast more spells, is perfectly in line with that. It's the whole purpose of this subclass: fighters mostly fight, but you can fight and cast! You're special!</p><p></p><p>That is not to say the game is fully consistent in all its profuse rules. It's almost godëlian, anyway: I'm sure you could devise a theorem about how a rule system will automatically produce this kind of peculiarities when it's complex enough. I'm indeed quite sure they are instances where the rules are not rooted in the fiction at all. But that is, to me, all the more reasons to let them be rooted where they can be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BenjaminPey, post: 9761463, member: 7039344"] Darn this discussion moves fast. I don't think me going back four or five pages up-thread would do any good, so I'll just summarize what I personnaly get out of it. I mostly agree with [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] that ttrpg rules are not meant to be parsed with such a high degree of technicality, even though there was in 2024 an intent to make them more so. I stand by my first assessment that all of this should be first and foremost rooted in the fiction, and that if you play with this in mind most if not all of the supposed loopholes or the perceived vagueness vanish. (Yes, even in the Stealth rule.) In the "Actions as ressource and actions as things you do" debate, and the "is Ready an Action or an action?" question, I think the simplest explanation works best. Ready is a capital [I]a[/I] Action. It is then allowed in Action Surge (but not with the Haste spell!). I also think that it should be a small [I]a[/I] action, as to be rooted in the fiction, and for this you need triggers to be meaningful. Not because silly triggers could allow you to act out of your turn in an Action-economy based game. That I don't care much, because it won't change a thing and, surprise: nobody does it. But because otherwise, if you allow Ready to just be an Action, without any bearing in the fiction, it simply becomes a way to circumvent these quite clear boundaries the game imposes on the kind of action (small [I]a[/I]) your character can take, according to the rules and the fiction: a fighter mostly fights, their Attack action does [I]this [/I]and [I]that[/I], a rogue can't sneak twice, etc. That, this "Ready as an Action but not an action", to me, goes against the intent of the rules, and is not even fully RAW-compliant, as this lenghty discussion showed in my view. Ready is an Action, but must be an action, too. It being a container for other actions shouldn't change that. I don't see a single reason why it should. Hence, Ready being an Action and an action, casting a spell with a Ready action should inherit all the explicit limitations put on casting a spell with a Magic action. That the Eldritch Knight, a magical fighter, can cast more spells, is perfectly in line with that. It's the whole purpose of this subclass: fighters mostly fight, but you can fight and cast! You're special! That is not to say the game is fully consistent in all its profuse rules. It's almost godëlian, anyway: I'm sure you could devise a theorem about how a rule system will automatically produce this kind of peculiarities when it's complex enough. I'm indeed quite sure they are instances where the rules are not rooted in the fiction at all. But that is, to me, all the more reasons to let them be rooted where they can be. [/QUOTE]
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