Using pre-battled foes against a party

[Cor Azer]

Does anyone ever use pre-battled foes against the PCs?

PCs are (usually?) expected to handle more than one encounter before needing/stopping to rest, and so they often go into encounters without their full hit points, or full complement of daily spells/abilities. As a DM, do you ever set up situations were the NPCs have also used some of their abilities beforehand (and not in a preparing for this battle deal - perhaps they fought someone else earlier)?

If so, how do you try to balance (if at all) such challenges using CR/EL?

.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Does anyone ever use pre-battled foes against the PCs?

PCs are (usually?) expected to handle more than one encounter before needing/stopping to rest, and so they often go into encounters without their full hit points, or full complement of daily spells/abilities. As a DM, do you ever set up situations were the NPCs have also used some of their abilities beforehand (and not in a preparing for this battle deal - perhaps they fought someone else earlier)?

Sometimes, it depends upon the NPCs backstory. Generally not, however.

If so, how do you try to balance (if at all) such challenges using CR/EL?

Weakened opponents are weaker, therefor they should be an easier encounter than their CR indicates. This leaves the DM with two options; use more of them to make it as challenging as a normal encounter or leave the weakened foes out there to get pasted. Which is chosen depends upon story needs, in my experience.

For XP purposes, I'll usually treat the monster/NPC as CR -1.

 

[frankthedm]

Does anyone ever use pre-battled foes against the PCs?

PCs are (usually?) expected to handle more than one encounter before needing/stopping to rest, and so they often go into encounters without their full hit points, or full complement of daily spells/abilities. As a DM, do you ever set up situations were the NPCs have also used some of their abilities beforehand (and not in a preparing for this battle deal - perhaps they fought someone else earlier)?

If so, how do you try to balance (if at all) such challenges using CR/EL?

.

The wounded don't usually pick fights. The PCs usually have the fight picked with them in the field. In fortified location, the foes tend to be living there because they don't get attacked there and the PCs are the only real threat that comes thier way.

A wandering moster that is wounded stop wandering and holds up somewhere unless it is very hungry. Beings heal faster in D&D worlds so it is better to hide and heal, then hunt.

XP /CR wise, th DMG suggests -25% to -50% xp for easy to real easy fights. But be careful, Damage output does not change based on HP loss, so don't assume a CR goes down due to injury.

The PCs almost encountered Zargon after it's Psudonatural Blue dragon minion turned on it. They purged the corruption off the Blue dragon, but they were badly hurt by a living bone pile sentry and then woke, released and fought a chimera in another adjacent room

 

[shilsen]

Yes, I do. The PCs in my campaign just came out of a fight that would have caused casualties if the enemy spellcaster hadn't used some of his best spells already. I also have enemy spellcasters (esp. if not expecting a fight and surprised by the party) who have prepared spells for general utility and normal daily use (Unseen Servant, etc.).

I also run a game where most of the time the PCs only have a single fight in a game day, and I have a fair number of fights where the PCs get to buff beforehand, so the PCs mostly go into battle with full resources and very well-prepared. Never caused a problem for me as far as challenging them, even with significantly weaker opposition.

The above also has no effect on XP in my game, since I simply award a fixed amount of XP per session to keep PCs advancing at a pace I'm happy with, irrespective of what actually happens in the session.

 

[Nifft]

I do that. Psions (some of the B-est of the BBEGs IMC) have 1/2 to 1/3 their PP for any given fight.

Also, I use multi-classing to lower the power level of foes while increasing their survivability. A Barb 4 / Sorc 8 (with Practiced Spellcaster) will survive much longer than a Sorc 12, and will be less likely to cause insta-death, but will provide some serious challenge -- and will throw 10d6 Fireballs, which will make the party fear him.

-- N

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The math on that is hard.

I think 2e recommended giving mage NPCs 1d100% of their spells (easier to just say 50%) but quite frankly, a mage shouldn't use up all their spells in one combat anyway.

How do you determine hit point loss, etc? If that were easy to figure out, DMs might do so more often.

 

[Sejs]

Depends on the situation, but yes, if it's warranted (open war or some other large assault).

Another thing I've done is have a wizard where the spells they have memorized are more appropriate for downtime research rather than loaded for bear. A few emergency combat spells, but mostly utility magics that are pretty well useless in a fight.

 

[delericho]

My answers are 'sometimes' and 'I reduce XP awards by about 20%'. Although the latter answer depends on how much impact the reduction in resources actually has on the encounter.

 

[wedgeski]

Yes I've done it several times, usually as a balancing issue where I need the encounter to happen before the party rests (for some reason) but they've already taken a particularly severe beating. If you give them decent clues ("The stranger in plate mail is nursing a gushing wound on his forehead while the woman in robes is furiously flipping through a dog-eared leather book..."), it can lead to some interesting encounters. It's sometimes amazing how the PC's attitude changes when they're faced with obviously weakened foes; NPC's they wouldn't have thought twice about attacking suddenly become people worth talking to.

Balance-wise, you have to wing it of course, depending on exactly what spells the mage might have used and how much damage the fighter has (for example). But often, like I said, things just don't go that way.

 

[Cor Azer]

XP /CR wise, th DMG suggests -25% to -50% xp for easy to real easy fights. But be careful, Damage output does not change based on HP loss, so don't assume a CR goes down due to injury.

I think this was the thought I was trying to put into words. Since characters have full attack potential and (possibly) all the recommended wealth for their actual level, reducing a foes HP by 50% doesn't necessarily lessen the challenge by as much.

I have a scenerio in the planning stages where I'm hoping the PCs will spot/encounter foes having just finished off another battle, and I'm looking for some insights on how to handle the challenge.