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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 8473609" data-attributes="member: 29398">This very neatly gets to a deeper design-philosophy question that might be worth looking at, which goes something like this:If a mechanic is listed on the character sheet and thus is player-side, does - or should - that give the player control over when-how that mechanic is invoked?Corollary question: should mechanics that are not under the player's control appear on the character sheet at all?A character's combat stats and abilities are all listed on the character sheet and (with rare exceptions) the player has full control over when and how those mechanics are invoked.Physical skills - athletics, climbing, etc. - are similar, in that their use is almost always invoked by player choice (even though that choice may be forced sometimes, it's still a choice in the end).  Exploraiton skills - search, move silently, etc. - are also fully under the player's control as to when and how they are invoked.Inspiration and other meta-currencies, horrible though they are, also fall into this player-controlled category.And for all of the above, in all cases the success-fail result is quickly obvious: you missed your shot, you climbed out of the pit, you crept past the guard, etc.But for things like social skills, if the player doesn't get to choose when and how to invoke them (i.e. call for a roll) and-or can't always tell what the results are if any, then why are they even shown on the character sheet?  I ask this because if they're on the character sheet it's very easy for a player to assume they're invokable at the player's choice just like all the other player-side mechanics.Another offender here is saving throws.  Despite the game pushing these player-side even back in 1e days, I've always held that saving throw mechanics should be DM-side only.  A player usually has no choice as to when or how this mechanic is invoked; the player just rolls the save when forced to by the game state, and the success-fail state isn't always immediately obvious in any case (though often it is).</blockquote>

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