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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8473724" data-attributes="member: 6779196">Ok, I see what you’re saying.I don’t believe the rules mandate anything, because they explicitly say you can ignore them. However, there are some things they support, explicitly instructing you to do, and some things they do not support - you can still do them, but they require going outside of what the rules describe. For example, the rules don’t support players initiating ability checks. They don’t forbid it, you can play that way if you want. But there’s no support for it in the rules.Agreed, and those statements seem from my reading to be that the DM calls for them to be made when there is uncertainty in the outcome of an action.Would you mind citing such a rule? From what I recall, the rules surrounding ability checks are generally framed around their use by PCs.Not at all. My argument is that CHA checks work just like all other ability checks - they are called for by the DM to resolve uncertainty in the outcome of an action. Since in my reading there is no uncertainty in the outcome of any action made to influence a PC’s decisions, it is entirely consistent with how other ability checks are used that Charisma checks not be called for to resolve such actions.It is indeed just as true for any other ability. In my reading, there is no support for ability checks (Charisma or otherwise) being used to resolve actions made to influence the decisions of PCs. I disagree. “The charmed creature treats [the caster] as a friendly acquaintance” is a direct contradiction of “the player decides how their character acts.”Those are also clear contradictions of the rules text in question, yes.Yes, since the rules tell you you can ignore them if you want, it is not against the rules to call for a Charisma (Intimidation) check to resolve an attempt to intimidate a PC. From the very beginning of this thread that there is no invalid way to play. I am not, and have never been, arguing that you can’t or shouldn’t rule that way if you want to. All I’m saying is that the rules don’t support doing so. They don’t tell you you should do that.</blockquote>

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