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Message: <blockquote data-quote="iserith" data-source="post: 8474279" data-attributes="member: 97077">There seems to be a lot of obfuscation around this issue. It's really very simple in my view. It doesn't even require any excessive digging through the rules to arrive at the following:Ability checks resolve the success or failure of an attempted action when the outcome of is uncertain and there's a meaningful consequence for failure. The DM decides if it's uncertain and if there's a meaningful consequence for failure. If there is, then the DM sets a DC and calls for an ability check. For intimidation, we're answering the question, "Does the monster intimidate someone else?" (In context, it's getting the monster's target to do something it doesn't want to do.)When it comes to PCs, the player determines what the character does, thinks, and says.If an NPC or PC makes an attempt to deceive, intimidate, or persuade a PC, the DM has to assess - like any other action - whether there's an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure. There is no uncertain outcome in this situation, however, since the player determines what the character does, thinks, and says. It's certain that the outcome is whatever the player says it is. No uncertainty, no ability check.Some DMs in this thread are having the NPC or PC making an ability check anyway. They can't set a DC. With no DC, there is no meaningful consequence for failure because there's no way to determine failure from the DM's role. It goes back to the player deciding how to react. The roll, therefore, is answering the question "How intimidating is the monster?" Which is not a task - it's just something that informs the DM's description and/or acts as a stand-in for it. In short, it's not an ability check at all in the way the rules set forth. It's rolling for color or flavor.Are there spells and class features that specifically say the player has to act a certain way? Yes. But that has nothing to do with how ability checks are resolved in situations where an NPC or PC attempts to deceive, intimidate, or persuade a PC.</blockquote>

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