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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8475842" data-attributes="member: 71699">Again, there is inconsistency. Frightening Presence has a chance of overriding &quot;player decides&quot;. (If player fails their save, they can't decide to approach the dragon.) Charm has a chance of overriding player decides. (If player fails their save, they can't decide to treat their charmer as a neutral or hostile acquaintance.) Therefore player decides is uncertain under some game mechanics. There is nothing that tells us to exclude social skills from such mechanics. To do so is arbitrary.Again, arbitrary. The specific of - an NPC passes off a disguise - is adequate to form an exception to the possible general of - players decide. Further, players decide is not an exception to the general of DM decides if a check is called for.The social interaction rules provide said more specific rules. It is false to say that there is never a possibility (uncertainty) that a PC will be able to or forced to make a certain decision. Game mechanics regularly establish such uncertainty. The uncertainty argument presupposes that there is never uncertainty in players deciding, but that is not sustained - other than by turning a blind eye to or pleading as special cases everywhere else that uncertainty is established.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 8475842, member: 71699"] Again, there is inconsistency. Frightening Presence has a chance of overriding "player decides". (If player fails their save, they can't decide to approach the dragon.) Charm has a chance of overriding player decides. (If player fails their save, they can't decide to treat their charmer as a neutral or hostile acquaintance.) Therefore player decides is uncertain under some game mechanics. There is nothing that tells us to exclude social skills from such mechanics. To do so is arbitrary. Again, arbitrary. The specific of - an NPC passes off a disguise - is adequate to form an exception to the possible general of - players decide. Further, players decide is not an exception to the general of DM decides if a check is called for. The social interaction rules provide said more specific rules. It is false to say that there is never a possibility (uncertainty) that a PC will be able to or forced to make a certain decision. Game mechanics regularly establish such uncertainty. The uncertainty argument presupposes that there is never uncertainty in players deciding, but that is not sustained - other than by turning a blind eye to or pleading as special cases everywhere else that uncertainty is established. [/QUOTE]

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