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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8476441" data-attributes="member: 6779196">Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by persuasion, that’s not what I’m trying to do. Persuasion is a game mechanic. Its game mechanical function is to allow the player whose character has proficiency in it to add their proficiency bonus to any Charisma checks the DM calls for to resolve “attempt(s) to influence someone or a group of people with tact, social graces, or good nature,” (PHB, don’t have the page number because I’m away from book and copy-pasting from D&amp;D Beyond instead). Or, if the Skills With Different Abilities optional rule is in play, checks with any ability that the DM calls for to resolve the same actions.I’m not sure what you mean about leaving the circularity argument untouched. To me what appears circular is using the results of a successful ability check to justify calling for an ability check in the first place. You’re reversing the order of operations in order to arrive at uncertainty you’ve already assumed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8476441, member: 6779196"] Unless I’m misunderstanding what you mean by persuasion, that’s not what I’m trying to do. Persuasion is a game mechanic. Its game mechanical function is to allow the player whose character has proficiency in it to add their proficiency bonus to any Charisma checks the DM calls for to resolve “attempt(s) to influence someone or a group of people with tact, social graces, or good nature,” (PHB, don’t have the page number because I’m away from book and copy-pasting from D&D Beyond instead). Or, if the Skills With Different Abilities optional rule is in play, checks with any ability that the DM calls for to resolve the same actions. I’m not sure what you mean about leaving the circularity argument untouched. To me what appears circular is using the results of a successful ability check to justify calling for an ability check in the first place. You’re reversing the order of operations in order to arrive at uncertainty you’ve already assumed. [/QUOTE]

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