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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8477437" data-attributes="member: 71699">So the obvious thing to say about that is to notice all the specificity that is associated with skills. As [USER=23751]@Maxperson[/USER] touched on a few posts up-thread, and as [USER=7031982]@Bill Zebub[/USER] put at issue, it's possible that RAW offers no means to tell which parts of RAW are more specific. So I am taking the following view<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">For something to be considered under PHB 7, it need only be one of the things listed under PHB 7.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If it is one of the things listed under PHB 7, exceptions are only formed where there is actual conflict.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">A mark of a general rule, is that it applies generally - to multiple aspects of the game. The more aspects it applies to, the more general it is. The clue is in the name. The least requirement for something specific is that it doesn't apply to everything.</li> </ol>How does that cash out?<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">The PHB 185 RAW is an element of the game, so it must be considered under PHB 7.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">If I believe 185 conflicts with the social skills, then I am saying that exceptions can be formed in its relation.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">"Roleplaying is a part of every aspect of the game..." it's hard to see what could be more general than that. PHB 185 is a general rule. Agreed?</li> </ol>You seem to want the test for skills to be about how they work, but that is not what PHB 7 asks for. It asks only whether skills are a game element? That is something you have already conceded. As game elements, they can create an exception to how the rest of the game works. So even if the game works the way you say it does, skills as game elements can ignore that where it conflicts with the RAW specific to them. And the RAW specific to them is not all of the text relating to ability checks, it is only their text. I urge you to check again the PHB 7 text - maybe you will notice something there that I have not.What do you think PHB 7 asks for, more than that they are simply a game element?That might matter if the actual RAW - the specific text in the skills - did not authorize the DM to call for a check. Seeing as it does, there is a conflict that must be decided in favour of the more specific. PHB 7 is on a similar power level to Rule 0. It affords exceptions to the way the game otherwise works. If I did not see those words in the RAW - in the social skills - saying that a DM can call for a check, then I would likely come down on this in a different place. There would then be no specific contained in the skill game elements that conflicted with the PHB 185 general.</blockquote>

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