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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8477774" data-attributes="member: 84112">we are back to ripping the bar off the door doesn't open the door. saying what your PC/NPC does and how they want to do it (even if in short hand by naming  game mechanic like a skill) is still what you do... the world reacts to you and you react to the world. you can tell your PCs before the roll what will or wont happen, that is cool, but not RAW, (I don't even disagree, I would be cool with you saying "Okay roll, but if you success or fail you don't get to dictate what the orc does in responce") and as far as it being a 'not success' aka a failure, not the failure would be the orc laughing. they CAN succeed though, they can intimidate the orc. what they can not do is then because he is intimidated take control and dictate what he does when intimidated. I copy pasted the scenario from above... so if the orc intimidates the player "to make him run" all the orc can do is intimadate or not intimidate, the PC then has the same options the DM did above... so laugh/punch are both possible outcomes, so is cry for help, so is run away, so is draw your weapon, so is cast a spell, the orc intimidating you does not mind control you... this is NOT suggestion. I not only understand it, I played that way in 2e and 23e. I even understand how you read the rules, I just disagree with it. I can understand it though.I mean they should have atleast all the information there character would have...maybe a bit more.  I think the sphere of anniliation in the demon mouth dungeon entrence would be  jerk move in a random dungeon...but if they know they are about to play a meat grinder adventure with traps and tricks it is fair (even if it isn't what i would do...)and with clear communication and understanding of your players, and you trusting them and them trusting you, and this sort of thing being a corner case... gotchas can be fun (in small doses) i undterstand that the same way we don't keep secrets some DMs don't have the world respond, I also understand how to play in both... I dislike games with every roll being a gotcha, but I also dislike games where I havbe to explain how my character does something he can do that I can nott...</blockquote>

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