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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8478861" data-attributes="member: 84112">NOW THIS IS THE RIGHT QUASTION... why my group feels this is the right way is simple. We don't want to play a game of testing if the DM or the Player is smarter or more creative or just uses words better. We want to play a game where the shyest player can play a Cha heavy Bard, take Inspiring leader feat, and IN GAME be the most convincing and inspiring guy/gal there... but we also want that player to be able to (if they want) take a turn DMing, and run NPCs that are a Cha heavy Bard, take Inspiring leader feat, and IN GAME be the most convincing and inspiring guy/gal there. We don't see it as a detriment to our roleplaying.  Infact we have found it leads to WAY more interesting (and sometimes funny) roleplaying when we only take what is happening in the fiction, in the story, in the game into account without the weight of how well the player/dm describes it. A 'scary orc' with a cha of +2 and Intimidate skill +3 and expertise +3 and blessing of Gumph granting advantage on the roll can roll 2d20 take the highest and add 8 to it, and let us know how scary he is IN game. (this means it can be 2 1's and be a 9 and we all laugh at him, or a 17, and 12 to give a 25 and we know how to respond) It means that the DM who has 30+ years of DMing, does improv, and writes for a living (yes this is a player we used to have and yes he DMed) is not going to make a 'scarier orc' then the DM who has only run 3 games and 1 was 4e, and has only been playing a handful of years is shy and stutters (a player/dm who we still have)and so it makes it hard to take what they just said out of game and translate it into what happened in game.it isn't important that the player believe the lie (or not believe) what matters is when in doubt we have a skill system to fall back on. When the out of game information can not properly convay the ingame narrative, we have rules for that. lol, if that was true why roll.  It almost feels like everyone argueing against this has never rolled a D20 and it come up 1-6? It is 100% MORE likely (in my groups that I am speaking for) that if a DM has a plot point, they just explain it and let us run with it. It is more when they DON'T have the plot pre planned they fall back on 'hey how X is Y'I disagree (I know shocking). If that was true why have those social skills at all? Just make Cha the most used casting stat with no skills (like Con already is) and then there would be no question.</blockquote>

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