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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HammerMan" data-source="post: 8480897" data-attributes="member: 84112">I acknowledge that [USER=97077]@iserith[/USER] has done a great job of 'showing the math' and I both understand and can see where you guys get that interpretation.  I even think that it can be a fun way to play (in the right group), I just don't think it is the only valid reading of the rules.and again that is just plane not true.  if I am climbing a building and the DM determines the DC is 13 per movement (and I have a 30ft move half for climbing so 15ft per round) and I have to climb 100ft, I roll my first 4 attempts and make the DC 13 (so 45ft) then roll anything form a 1-12 I do not advance... at some point (I think we can all agree) if I fail to make progress I am going to fall, I can't just hold myself up 45ft above the ground for hours. How well you climbed is 100% what you are checking here. yes the outcome of an athletics (climb) check is to climbyes the outcome of an intimidate check is to intimidateclimbing the wall doesn't let me (player or DM) control another character (PC or NPC)intimidating doesn't let me (player or DM) control another character (PC or NPC)in this thread I have seen many examples of making a check allowing the PC to take control of an NPC and dictate to the DM how that NPC reacts to this social skill...I disagree.    I will go back to the lone guard, a PC wants to get by. the guard says no. A PC can use athletics/attack to grapple or push him, but all that does is immobilize or move the guard, he can still yell for back up.A PC can use Intimidate. but if the guard is intimidated he may still call for help (I would if I were a cop and was intimidated call for back up) another one is a king doesn't want to give a PC a magic item to go slay the villian. The PC wants the item from the treasury. Now both ways, roll or role play the character makes a great persuasive argument (maybe hit the DC or maybe just out of game that player can talk to DM well it doesn't matter) SO the king is persuaded that the villian needs to be stopped and that item will help, so he sends his 5 best soldiers to retrieve the item and stop the villian...  end result not "so he gives me the +3 luck blade"Now if in the above the PCs tried to intimidate the king, that might have gotten the royal guards to attack, if they tried to intimidate and failed maybe the king and the guards all laughing because they do not take the threat seriously. making the check is not mind control, the Player states the action, the DM the reaction.  The DM states the action the player states the reaction.I would guess the group of friends around the table is the answer 99% of the time, but if you stream I guess the audience too.</blockquote>

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