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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 8481102" data-attributes="member: 23751">Well, no, it literally can't.&nbsp; It may not use the word &quot;then&quot;, but it's an if-then sentence.&nbsp; If this, then that. Choosing &quot;that&quot; first would be to get the order incorrect and therefore would be a misuse of that rule.&nbsp; The circular aspect is a clue that it's not the right(RAW reading) way to do it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Circumstantial game reasons for uncertainty will be decided BEFORE the roll happens.&nbsp; If there are circumstances like being beat to hell, exhausted or whatever, those are examples of things that could put a certain outcome in doubt, requiring a roll.&nbsp; They aren't contradictions to what I am saying or the rule in question.This falls into the realm of playstyle.&nbsp; Sure, a playstyle can alter the other rules of the game.&nbsp; If you are engaging the roll with it rule, it's a more specific rule than the general one requiring rolls only when the outcome is uncertain and there is a meaningful chance of failure.&nbsp; It specifically says to roll for just about everything, so that's what you do. An example of specific beats general doesn't change the ability check rule into a guideline.&nbsp; Not that in 5e a rule isn't a guideline and a guideline isn't a rule.&nbsp; 5e doesn't really differentiate between the two.I don't think player agency is the reason behind what we are arguing.&nbsp; Player agency certainly touches on it, since allowing the player to decide does give the player more agency, but it's not the motivator.&nbsp; The rule is the motivator. As an side, player agency is mentioned in the DMG one time on page 241 when talking about when to award inspiration.Fair enough. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 8481102, member: 23751"] Well, no, it literally can't. It may not use the word "then", but it's an if-then sentence. If this, then that. Choosing "that" first would be to get the order incorrect and therefore would be a misuse of that rule. The circular aspect is a clue that it's not the right(RAW reading) way to do it. ;) Circumstantial game reasons for uncertainty will be decided BEFORE the roll happens. If there are circumstances like being beat to hell, exhausted or whatever, those are examples of things that could put a certain outcome in doubt, requiring a roll. They aren't contradictions to what I am saying or the rule in question. This falls into the realm of playstyle. Sure, a playstyle can alter the other rules of the game. If you are engaging the roll with it rule, it's a more specific rule than the general one requiring rolls only when the outcome is uncertain and there is a meaningful chance of failure. It specifically says to roll for just about everything, so that's what you do. An example of specific beats general doesn't change the ability check rule into a guideline. Not that in 5e a rule isn't a guideline and a guideline isn't a rule. 5e doesn't really differentiate between the two. I don't think player agency is the reason behind what we are arguing. Player agency certainly touches on it, since allowing the player to decide does give the player more agency, but it's not the motivator. The rule is the motivator. As an side, player agency is mentioned in the DMG one time on page 241 when talking about when to award inspiration. Fair enough. :) [/QUOTE]

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