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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8482563" data-attributes="member: 6779196">But you’re ignoring the requirement of a possibility of success for a check to be called for. If the goal of an action is to make a PC do something not of the player’s volition, it is not, per PHB 185, possible for it to succeed, and therefore not all of the necessary conditions are met for a check to be called for.Oops! Sorry. This is why I keep requesting either quotes or section headers because I don’t have a resource with page numbers accessible to me right now.Again, the possibility or something specific that falls within the scope of an ability check (to which proficiency bonus may be added if the character performing the action is proficient in a skill under whose scope that specific thing falls) is contingent on an ability check being called for in the first place, which requires a possibility of success, a possibility of failure, and meaningful stakes. These things are determined based on the circumstances, as established by the DM’s description of the environment (which might include an obstacle that would make an otherwise unchallenging action challenging) and either the player’s description of their character’s action or the DM’s description of the NPC’s action. If that description involves a goal which removes the player’s volition, the possibility of success does not exist, per PHB 185, so a check is not necessary to resolve the action, therefore the possibility of something happening as a result of the check is null and does not form a specific exception to any general rule.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8482563, member: 6779196"] But you’re ignoring the requirement of a possibility of success for a check to be called for. If the goal of an action is to make a PC do something not of the player’s volition, it is not, per PHB 185, possible for it to succeed, and therefore not all of the necessary conditions are met for a check to be called for. Oops! Sorry. This is why I keep requesting either quotes or section headers because I don’t have a resource with page numbers accessible to me right now. Again, the possibility or something specific that falls within the scope of an ability check (to which proficiency bonus may be added if the character performing the action is proficient in a skill under whose scope that specific thing falls) is contingent on an ability check [I]being called for in the first place[/I], which requires a possibility of success, a possibility of failure, and meaningful stakes. These things are determined based on the circumstances, as established by the DM’s description of the environment (which might include an obstacle that would make an otherwise unchallenging action challenging) and either the player’s description of their character’s action or the DM’s description of the NPC’s action. If that description involves a goal which removes the player’s volition, the possibility of success does not exist, per PHB 185, so a check is not necessary to resolve the action, therefore the possibility of something happening as a result of the check is null and does not form a specific exception to any general rule. [/QUOTE]

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