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<blockquote data-quote="Bill Zebub" data-source="post: 8482854" data-attributes="member: 7031982">Here's an attempt to clarify things for those with fruit blindness:When a character declares an action, a.k.a. &quot;tries something&quot;, and the DM rules that the attempt fails (or possibly calls for a roll), what is the reason given for why they will (or might) fail?&nbsp; What thing is preventing the character from achieving their goal?Note that this isn't &quot;what chain of events got us here&quot;, which might include, &quot;Somebody cast a spell on you&quot; or &quot;Somebody hit you with a truck&quot; or &quot;Somebody tried to persuade you&quot;).&nbsp; It's &quot;What is actually preventing me from doing X?&quot;How the DM explains it says a lot about what's going on.Apples:1. A specific rule that imposes a defined mechanical condition: Restrained, 0 HP, Charmed, Grappled, etc.2. A physical reality so obvious it doesn't need rules: there is a wall in the way, you're in free fall, there is no oxygen, etc.3. No specific mechanic allowing physical reality to be ignored: hobbits don't breathe fire, you don't know that spell, etc.Oranges:&quot;You just can't&quot;&quot;Your character wouldn't do that&quot;&quot;You are trying to get an in-game advantage instead of playing your character&quot;The thing about Oranges is that if you keep pushing and digging and seeking clarity, eventually you are going to arrive at those pesky &quot;thoughts and feelings&quot; of the character, but without a named mechanic (Charmed, Restrained, Frightened, Zero HP) to back them up.&nbsp; With the Apples, that's not necessary.&nbsp; It doesn't matter what the character is thinking or feeling, halflings can't breathe fire.&nbsp; It doesn't matter what they are thinking or feeling, when you are Restrained you can't move.I'm not sure I can explain the difference any better than that.&nbsp; If anybody still wants to insist there is no distinction, well I guess we're at an impasse.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Bill Zebub, post: 8482854, member: 7031982"] Here's an attempt to clarify things for those with fruit blindness: When a character declares an action, a.k.a. "tries something", and the DM rules that the attempt fails (or possibly calls for a roll), what is the reason given for why they will (or might) fail? What [I]thing[/I] is preventing the character from achieving their goal? Note that this isn't "what chain of events got us here", which might include, "Somebody cast a spell on you" or "Somebody hit you with a truck" or "Somebody tried to persuade you"). It's "What is actually preventing me from doing X?" How the DM explains it says a lot about what's going on. Apples: 1. A specific rule that imposes a defined mechanical condition: Restrained, 0 HP, Charmed, Grappled, etc. 2. A physical reality so obvious it doesn't need rules: there is a wall in the way, you're in free fall, there is no oxygen, etc. 3. No specific mechanic allowing physical reality to be ignored: hobbits don't breathe fire, you don't know that spell, etc. Oranges: "You just can't" "Your character wouldn't do that" "You are trying to get an in-game advantage instead of playing your character" The thing about Oranges is that if you keep pushing and digging and seeking clarity, [I]eventually[/I] you are going to arrive at those pesky "thoughts and feelings" of the character, but without a named mechanic (Charmed, Restrained, Frightened, Zero HP) to back them up. With the Apples, that's not necessary. It doesn't matter what the character is thinking or feeling, halflings can't breathe fire. It doesn't matter what they are thinking or feeling, when you are Restrained you can't move. I'm not sure I can explain the difference any better than that. If anybody still wants to insist there is no distinction, well I guess we're at an impasse. [/QUOTE]

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