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Message: <blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 8482960" data-attributes="member: 71699">I like your post. Bear in mind that it is all imaginary. A character being tied up is just as imaginary as a character huddling on the floor in fear. The fluff is different, but the crunch is identical. The impasse is that if an ability check can tie a character up (preventing action) then why arbitrarily decide that an ability check can't cow a character (preventing action.)There is a difference, but it is really hard to get at and still hasn't been properly articulated in this thread. Earlier I mentioned volition. That is because another poster had talked about a distinction between a player-character moving downward, and a player being forced to decide to have their character move downward. Perhaps look at how we scan the sentence.<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you as a player determining how your character thinks, acts, and talks</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">you as a player determining how your character thinks, acts, and talks</li> </ol>Is it that - so long as I get to say what I want to try and do, no matter if I can do that, the sentence requirement is met? Or is it that - so long as I get to say the manner in which I do it, no matter if I can do it in that manner or not, the sentence requirement is met? It can feasibly be both, right? But how do I say the manner in which I am tied up? Isn't that up to the character doing the tying up? And what is the effect of saying what I want to try and do if I can't do it?Responsive to your closing thoughts, maybe it is saying that - given that my character could do X, it is up to me if they do X. We feel like when our character is (in our imagination) tied up, they could not do X, so it is not up to me if they do X. Whereas we feel like when our character is (in our imagination) upbraided by an NPC, they could still do X, so it remains up to me if they do X.Perhaps you can see how arbitrary that distinction really is. It is to do with the particular meaning we give to volition. We can readily imagine a world where every creature has a degree of psychic power, so that when they upbraid one another they really can make it that they cannot do X, by making it that they cannot choose to do X.That's what I meant by "subtle", before. It's not half so settled as it might seem on surface.</blockquote>

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