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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storyteller01" data-source="post: 1899924" data-attributes="member: 20931">My concern isn't whether deities get involved (although it is my way as a DM to check players. If they want it, there will be consequences). My concern is the player attacking allies to gain a mechanics bonus, with the justification of 'there are no consequences' or 'the rules do not stop such actions' or 'they don't really die (sounds similar to the Movie Dumbo <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. 'He's made a rubber. Not'ing 'll happen to him!'). Allies making a mistake and getting you injured is one thing, and justified IMHO (to quote the starting thread "get better mooks"). Whacking the ally next to you to get an advantage seems, although logical by the RAW, REALLY detrimental in the long run. And admittedly, the reason we don't use other players for this tactic is not because it hurts the character. It's because it hurts the player, and the gaming group (similar to the 'I'm evil, it's what I do' syndrome)Not to be insulting, but it also smacks of metagaming, as the only justification I've heard, and just starting to hear it this far in the dicussion (counting the previous thread) is "the fighter goes wild (an intrepretation, I know) when in the thick of battle". So why not be a barbarian and rage. At least then I can see WHY summoned creatures get hit (the wizard summons more mooks to keep Balrog going). In that situation, both the wizard and the barbarian would be neutral, if not evil (immortal or not,  I would assume that being hacked to pieces is not pleasant. I'd also be hard pressed to believe said critters are magical constructs, given the extensive material in the Manual of the Planes, and the rules that book gave to play creatures from those planes. Just by the RAW though <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> )However, this justification had not been presented initially. The situation had been presented as a means to nerf and abuse the AoO/Cleave combo.</blockquote>

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