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<blockquote data-quote="Abraxas" data-source="post: 1903522" data-attributes="member: 1266">Sure - if they were the enemy of my enemy.You see it in movies.Bill is my enemyBob is my enemyI side with Bob to get an advantage over BillOpportunity pops up to take out both Bill and Bob.Opportunity taken.&nbsp;But thats not the point.&nbsp; If you want to make it a morality issue - go ahead, thats fine, buts it is no better a way to play than playing without the morality issue.&nbsp;I've been gaming for 26 years.&nbsp; I've never played in a game where anyone had this issue with summoned monsters.&nbsp; In every edition of the game summoned creatures were used to set off traps, they were used to attack against overwhelming odds, they were used to delay the enemy just for a round or two while we ran away, etc etc.&nbsp; Up until this discussion I've never met anyone who even suggested that they were anything other than a disposable asset - and I'm quite happy about that <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; You keep asking how can you attack an ally and get an advantage against an enemy - examples have been stated.&nbsp; The fact that I personally would never cut down my close friends to kill someone else isn't relevant.&nbsp; The game world isn't the real world.&nbsp; The fact that in the game world I wouldn't (almost certainly wouldn't but you never know) have my character cut down a fellow PC isn't relevant.&nbsp; Summoned monsters are not PCs and in our games the gods are happy to send in the cannon fodder via summon monster spells&nbsp;Heck, in 1E it was a pretty standard trick to be summoned (the summon monster spells could summon adventurers) and be used as fodder in somebody else's battle and use that as an adventure hook.&nbsp;It doesn't matter how many times you say you wouldn't do this, that is a function of your game world, it is not a function of the game itself.&nbsp;Certainly you can understand that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Abraxas, post: 1903522, member: 1266"] Sure - if they were the enemy of my enemy. You see it in movies. Bill is my enemy Bob is my enemy I side with Bob to get an advantage over Bill Opportunity pops up to take out both Bill and Bob. Opportunity taken. But thats not the point. If you want to make it a morality issue - go ahead, thats fine, buts it is no better a way to play than playing without the morality issue. I've been gaming for 26 years. I've never played in a game where anyone had this issue with summoned monsters. In every edition of the game summoned creatures were used to set off traps, they were used to attack against overwhelming odds, they were used to delay the enemy just for a round or two while we ran away, etc etc. Up until this discussion I've never met anyone who even suggested that they were anything other than a disposable asset - and I'm quite happy about that :) You keep asking how can you attack an ally and get an advantage against an enemy - examples have been stated. The fact that I personally would never cut down my close friends to kill someone else isn't relevant. The game world isn't the real world. The fact that in the game world I wouldn't (almost certainly wouldn't but you never know) have my character cut down a fellow PC isn't relevant. Summoned monsters are not PCs and in our games the gods are happy to send in the cannon fodder via summon monster spells Heck, in 1E it was a pretty standard trick to be summoned (the summon monster spells could summon adventurers) and be used as fodder in somebody else's battle and use that as an adventure hook. It doesn't matter how many times you say you wouldn't do this, that is a function of your game world, it is not a function of the game itself. Certainly you can understand that. [/QUOTE]

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