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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 1906930" data-attributes="member: 2268">Okay, now you've managed to completely confound me, to be honest. What exactly do you want a justification for, and from what angle?And I can already tell you, if you want one from the angle of &quot;real life combat&quot;, I'm the worst person to give it, because I never had any close combat training, and never was in any serious close combat in my 32 years on this planet.So..what exactly are you asking for? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> You're clearly not asking for a moral justification, as in &quot;when is it okay to kill an ally to gain an advantage&quot;. If you're going for a &quot;what exact maneuver enables me to kill somebody close and thus get a shot at the enemy&quot;, I think I've tried to provide something in that area...maybe not the best, though. The Cleave feat allows for an extra melee attack, it doesn't specify exactly how it has to look, so if I &quot;finish&quot; my killing stroke against the rogue's apprentice by attacking my opponent, that's an AoO+Cleave maneuver if I do it &quot;out of turn&quot;. And the shot wasn't necessarily lined up. The poor boy could have simply crossed my threatened area while sneaking up on my opponent. The same goes for the summoned creature.As for any other points, I really have to ask you to specify a little more on what you are looking for. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 1906930, member: 2268"] Okay, now you've managed to completely confound me, to be honest. What exactly do you want a justification for, and from what angle? And I can already tell you, if you want one from the angle of "real life combat", I'm the worst person to give it, because I never had any close combat training, and never was in any serious close combat in my 32 years on this planet. So..what exactly are you asking for? :) You're clearly not asking for a moral justification, as in "when is it okay to kill an ally to gain an advantage". If you're going for a "what exact maneuver enables me to kill somebody close and thus get a shot at the enemy", I think I've tried to provide something in that area...maybe not the best, though. The Cleave feat allows for an extra melee attack, it doesn't specify exactly how it has to look, so if I "finish" my killing stroke against the rogue's apprentice by attacking my opponent, that's an AoO+Cleave maneuver if I do it "out of turn". And the shot wasn't necessarily lined up. The poor boy could have simply crossed my threatened area while sneaking up on my opponent. The same goes for the summoned creature. As for any other points, I really have to ask you to specify a little more on what you are looking for. :) [/QUOTE]

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