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<blockquote data-quote="Geron Raveneye" data-source="post: 1907548" data-attributes="member: 2268">Okay, I think I know now where my problems lie...you're mixing up D&amp;D combat and real-life combat experiences a bit, or ar doing so for the answers you're expecting. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The problem is that it's already pretty hard to justify an &quot;out of turn&quot; AoO from somebody who is in melee combat with somebody else. Why can I whip my blade around to take a swing at somebody running by when I was just readying my defenses against the blow my opponent was about to deliver? Especially as I can do so against opponents running by behind my back! Without my opponent gaining even an advantage from me being distracted for a second or two myself.The point is that, in D&amp;D, Cleave simply means a sort of special training that enables a character to either continue a swing that went clear through one opponent, thus killing it, and end it against a second enemy, or it means a special fighting technique that gives a fighter the right rhythm to strike twice if he manages to drop his first opponent with one blow. It's a feat that goes well with scenes like- Gimli running along the siege wall of Helm's Deep, chopping off one Orc after the next at each point that he stops- Bruce Lee going through a heap of beginner karate pupils in the japanese Dojo to get at their sensei- the Three Musketeers standing back to back, defending against 10 of Richelieu's guardsAs for how &quot;realistic&quot; it is, as I said...I don't have any combat training, and never needed it either, so I can't say for sure.The point is, if you can &quot;justify&quot; how a melee combatant who is in a defensive stance in his own fighting rhythm can suddenly take a pot shot against somebody else in the vincinity without opening himself up to an attack from his opponent, you can start justifying the AoO+Cleave combo, too. Just keep in mind that D&amp;D combat was never meant to simulate &quot;real&quot; combat, not to a 100% and not to a 75% either, in my opinion. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Geron Raveneye, post: 1907548, member: 2268"] Okay, I think I know now where my problems lie...you're mixing up D&D combat and real-life combat experiences a bit, or ar doing so for the answers you're expecting. :) The problem is that it's already pretty hard to justify an "out of turn" AoO from somebody who is in melee combat with somebody else. Why can I whip my blade around to take a swing at somebody running by when I was just readying my defenses against the blow my opponent was about to deliver? Especially as I can do so against opponents running by behind my back! Without my opponent gaining even an advantage from me being distracted for a second or two myself. The point is that, in D&D, Cleave simply means a sort of special training that enables a character to either continue a swing that went clear through one opponent, thus killing it, and end it against a second enemy, or it means a special fighting technique that gives a fighter the right rhythm to strike twice if he manages to drop his first opponent with one blow. It's a feat that goes well with scenes like - Gimli running along the siege wall of Helm's Deep, chopping off one Orc after the next at each point that he stops - Bruce Lee going through a heap of beginner karate pupils in the japanese Dojo to get at their sensei - the Three Musketeers standing back to back, defending against 10 of Richelieu's guards As for how "realistic" it is, as I said...I don't have any combat training, and never needed it either, so I can't say for sure. The point is, if you can "justify" how a melee combatant who is in a defensive stance in his own fighting rhythm can suddenly take a pot shot against somebody else in the vincinity without opening himself up to an attack from his opponent, you can start justifying the AoO+Cleave combo, too. Just keep in mind that D&D combat was never meant to simulate "real" combat, not to a 100% and not to a 75% either, in my opinion. :) [/QUOTE]

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