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Using Summoned Creatures to gain an AoO
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<blockquote data-quote="Wrathamon" data-source="post: 1909561" data-attributes="member: 7989"><p>based on your own posts you are ignoring a game mechanic term and a fundamental part of the combat system and using your own "literal" definition.</p><p></p><p>Black pawn takes Black Rook, so that he now check mates White King?</p><p></p><p>It doesnt work that way in chess, just like it doesnt work that way in D&D.</p><p></p><p>It's just easier to "change" the rules in D&D, which many people do. And, I never said they were BAD changes, just your opinion.</p><p></p><p>You seem to want to defend your opinion as if it were RAW, which it clearly is not, based on your own answers.</p><p></p><p>I have quoted the book... it clearly states "enemy" in the Attack of Opportunity section. </p><p></p><p>If you wish to find a quote from the book that says an enemy is anyone you choose as your opponent then feel free to do so. All the quotes you have provided showing the term opponents is fine, because since only enemies provoke aoo then all those opponents must first be enemies and that is the rule as written. </p><p></p><p>You dont get AoO off non-enemies. </p><p></p><p>You can't just erase the term "enemies" from the attack of opportunity section, unless you HR it. </p><p></p><p>Now, if the Wizard/druid said go attack the Fighter then you may have a case were this works, but this would only work in realistically in Evil parties, which if you are playing in an evil campaign more power to you. Now, I will agree with you it makes no sense that it works in this case, but not the former, from a realistic point of view. The rules aren't always there for realism. This is a "restriction" for game balance. If you wish to remove the "restriction" then you have opened up a loophole to abuse. </p><p></p><p>Then your buddy runs past you and you are like I chop his head off? Huh? You don't threaten against party members(they arent enemies), until you are no longer a member of the party and become their enemy. Summoned monsters, familiars, mounts I believe are extensions of a party member because they are apart of his character, class, etc. </p><p></p><p>My HR in this case is that if a player wishes to attack another player who is running by or doing an action that provokes an AoO normally from an enemy, they must ready an action, once an attack has been made then the are concidered enemies because the player being attacked is aware of a "friendly" who is now an "enemy" </p><p></p><p>This is a HR for Fairness.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I now accept that all of you are looking beyond the RAW and discussing this in a more abstract sense for the "fun of it" and for the sake of fixing something you perceive as broken (and many, many others do as well).</p><p></p><p>people should chillax and not get overly defensive about things, it makes these forums (any forums) not fun to be around. *btw I applaud Storyteller and abraxus for how they are "going at it", no venom <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>On a side note, Karin'sDad you never showed me where you read that summon monsters were made extra planar for the sake of morality reasons... still curious about that one. thanks <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>edit: btw was that a summoned dead horse? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Wrathamon, post: 1909561, member: 7989"] based on your own posts you are ignoring a game mechanic term and a fundamental part of the combat system and using your own "literal" definition. Black pawn takes Black Rook, so that he now check mates White King? It doesnt work that way in chess, just like it doesnt work that way in D&D. It's just easier to "change" the rules in D&D, which many people do. And, I never said they were BAD changes, just your opinion. You seem to want to defend your opinion as if it were RAW, which it clearly is not, based on your own answers. I have quoted the book... it clearly states "enemy" in the Attack of Opportunity section. If you wish to find a quote from the book that says an enemy is anyone you choose as your opponent then feel free to do so. All the quotes you have provided showing the term opponents is fine, because since only enemies provoke aoo then all those opponents must first be enemies and that is the rule as written. You dont get AoO off non-enemies. You can't just erase the term "enemies" from the attack of opportunity section, unless you HR it. Now, if the Wizard/druid said go attack the Fighter then you may have a case were this works, but this would only work in realistically in Evil parties, which if you are playing in an evil campaign more power to you. Now, I will agree with you it makes no sense that it works in this case, but not the former, from a realistic point of view. The rules aren't always there for realism. This is a "restriction" for game balance. If you wish to remove the "restriction" then you have opened up a loophole to abuse. Then your buddy runs past you and you are like I chop his head off? Huh? You don't threaten against party members(they arent enemies), until you are no longer a member of the party and become their enemy. Summoned monsters, familiars, mounts I believe are extensions of a party member because they are apart of his character, class, etc. My HR in this case is that if a player wishes to attack another player who is running by or doing an action that provokes an AoO normally from an enemy, they must ready an action, once an attack has been made then the are concidered enemies because the player being attacked is aware of a "friendly" who is now an "enemy" This is a HR for Fairness. I now accept that all of you are looking beyond the RAW and discussing this in a more abstract sense for the "fun of it" and for the sake of fixing something you perceive as broken (and many, many others do as well). people should chillax and not get overly defensive about things, it makes these forums (any forums) not fun to be around. *btw I applaud Storyteller and abraxus for how they are "going at it", no venom :) On a side note, Karin'sDad you never showed me where you read that summon monsters were made extra planar for the sake of morality reasons... still curious about that one. thanks :) edit: btw was that a summoned dead horse? ;) [/QUOTE]
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