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Using Summoned Creatures to gain an AoO
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 1909745" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>This is total nonsense and everyone here knows it.</p><p></p><p>There are two ways to interpret an enemy, the literal way and the logical way:</p><p></p><p>1) Enemies are literally as defined in the game. In other words, an enemy is (PHB pg 308) "A creature unfriendly to you.". Unfriendly is (PHB pg 72): "Wishes you ill". Possible Actions: "Mislead, gossip, avoid, watch suspiciously, insult".</p><p></p><p>So, you can AoO according to YOUR literal definition if someone avoids you or insults you. But, you cannot AoO them if you want to.</p><p></p><p>Note: With the literal definition, you cannot AoO someone who is hostile to you. Hostile is (PHB pg 72): "Will take risks to hurt you". Possible Actions: "Attack, interfere, berate, flee".</p><p></p><p>So, also according to YOUR definition (i.e. following the literal definition of enemy), if someone is attacking you, you cannot AoO them.</p><p></p><p>Obviously the literal definition is lacking. According to the RAW, you cannot attack a hostile, hence, this interpretation is bogus.</p><p></p><p>2) The logical definition is that an "enemy" (for rules purposes) is anyone who is an opponent. Suddenly, all of those spells (like Summon Monster itself) which talk about both opponents and enemies make total sense. All of the AoO rules which sometimes talk about enemies and sometimes talk about opponents make total sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Note: YOUR interpretation is also stupid for other reasons. For example, the Fighter in our group wants to pick up the magical gem. The Cleric in our group is suspicious of the gem and asks the Fighter to not pick it up. The Fighter goes to do it anyway, so the Cleric tries to grapple the Fighter.</p><p></p><p>According to you: "You dont get AoO off non-enemies."</p><p></p><p>So, either the Fighter gets an AoO for the Cleric trying to grapple him and these best of friends are now enemies, OR, the Fighter does not get an AoO because these two are not enemies.</p><p></p><p>Both of these are silly and illogical. The Cleric is NOT the Fighter's enemy when he tries to protect him and yes, the Fighter DOES get the AoO if he wants it.</p><p></p><p>They are opponents in this case. But, the Cleric is not unfriendly (or really hostile) to the Fighter, he is trying to save his life. The Fighter, for example, might just be trying to be obstinate. But, they are NOT enemies (i.e. not unfriendly).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I suspect that WotC did not even think too much about the words enemies and opponents precisely because MOST of the time, opponents are enemies. But, not always. Hence, you have to use a little common sense here Wrathamon.</p><p></p><p>And that is why we have DMs. To have someone to interpret rules with a little common sense and not be robot rules lawyers, especially when terms like "enemies" is taken literally by someone like yourself.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you want the best friends Cleric and Fighter to become enemies in your game when one is trying to save the life of the other, go for it. But, don't expect most people to enjoy those types of unusual interpretations.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 1909745, member: 2011"] This is total nonsense and everyone here knows it. There are two ways to interpret an enemy, the literal way and the logical way: 1) Enemies are literally as defined in the game. In other words, an enemy is (PHB pg 308) "A creature unfriendly to you.". Unfriendly is (PHB pg 72): "Wishes you ill". Possible Actions: "Mislead, gossip, avoid, watch suspiciously, insult". So, you can AoO according to YOUR literal definition if someone avoids you or insults you. But, you cannot AoO them if you want to. Note: With the literal definition, you cannot AoO someone who is hostile to you. Hostile is (PHB pg 72): "Will take risks to hurt you". Possible Actions: "Attack, interfere, berate, flee". So, also according to YOUR definition (i.e. following the literal definition of enemy), if someone is attacking you, you cannot AoO them. Obviously the literal definition is lacking. According to the RAW, you cannot attack a hostile, hence, this interpretation is bogus. 2) The logical definition is that an "enemy" (for rules purposes) is anyone who is an opponent. Suddenly, all of those spells (like Summon Monster itself) which talk about both opponents and enemies make total sense. All of the AoO rules which sometimes talk about enemies and sometimes talk about opponents make total sense. Note: YOUR interpretation is also stupid for other reasons. For example, the Fighter in our group wants to pick up the magical gem. The Cleric in our group is suspicious of the gem and asks the Fighter to not pick it up. The Fighter goes to do it anyway, so the Cleric tries to grapple the Fighter. According to you: "You dont get AoO off non-enemies." So, either the Fighter gets an AoO for the Cleric trying to grapple him and these best of friends are now enemies, OR, the Fighter does not get an AoO because these two are not enemies. Both of these are silly and illogical. The Cleric is NOT the Fighter's enemy when he tries to protect him and yes, the Fighter DOES get the AoO if he wants it. They are opponents in this case. But, the Cleric is not unfriendly (or really hostile) to the Fighter, he is trying to save his life. The Fighter, for example, might just be trying to be obstinate. But, they are NOT enemies (i.e. not unfriendly). I suspect that WotC did not even think too much about the words enemies and opponents precisely because MOST of the time, opponents are enemies. But, not always. Hence, you have to use a little common sense here Wrathamon. And that is why we have DMs. To have someone to interpret rules with a little common sense and not be robot rules lawyers, especially when terms like "enemies" is taken literally by someone like yourself. If you want the best friends Cleric and Fighter to become enemies in your game when one is trying to save the life of the other, go for it. But, don't expect most people to enjoy those types of unusual interpretations. [/QUOTE]
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