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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Morgenstern" data-source="post: 608961" data-attributes="member: 5485">Well, I think my chief objection to DR-type armor not being useful against vitality damage is rooted in the nebulous nature of vitality damage itself. If it's purely 'not get hit factor' then why does a bigger gun chew off more vitality points? Dodging a blaster bolt is dodging a blaster bolt, so why can a character dodge 7 weeny green ones (say 50 vitality vs 2d6 averaging 7 points), but only 4-5 nasty red ones (same vitality vs. 2d12 at around 11 points per hit. So if the vitality points are already that abstract, why not let the armor be useful?With WP being in the 10-15 range (more or less) then armor that only protects WP is only going come into play maybe twice before you go down...Further, in regards to the big DR armor in Spycraft there are a couple of tradeoffs. If your armor completely absorbs an attack, you take 2 points of subdual damage - representing the massive bruising associated with getting shot while wearing a vest and such (I realize there is no equivalent in d20M with the non-lethal damage rules, but I suppose you could convert all of the attack's damage to non lethal and see if it provoked a check...). Further, a lot of Spycraft's bigger weapons can do more than 14 points of damage, and/or have the armor peircing (reduce DR by 3) or armor defeating (ignore DR) qualities. If you shift to any DR-based system you're going to want to bring in some mechanical effects for armor piercing munitions.In Modern, a I suppose that using the Burst Fire feat would get your damage range up where putting holes in a guy in serious military armor would be posible on a slighly better than average damage roll (4d6 averages 14), which seems fine to me. The bank robbers in the famous shootout down south where shrugging off light arms fire from the police untile the cops went and picked up some heavier weapons <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. If you're standing there in massive armor, do you thnk it cool that the cops erase your vitality points with their little pistols? You're barely feeling the hits (they had a LOT of armor on), so why, if you were to shuck the armor 10 minutes latter and be running for it is all your vitality gone? You weren't winded, you didn't do a lot of jumping around to avoid the bullets (which is seemingly how most vitality points are burned off in a fire fight).</blockquote>

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