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D&D Older Editions
v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)
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<blockquote data-quote="Kavon" data-source="post: 1198117" data-attributes="member: 9822"><p>When I said scroll, I meant anything that isn't permanent. So, anything with charges would count for that too.</p><p>I'm just saying that, say, if you have a party with a wizard or some such in it, who spent 500 XP on making scrolls at 1st level (for example). The wizard uses all his scrolls up.. He just lost 500 XP to one-time items. His companions all have 500 XP, while the wizard is at 0. They go adventure a bit more, and gain another 500 XP.. All of the wizard's companions level up, but the wizard is still at 500 XP now. The scrolls are used, the wizards gained only a very small thing on them (it doesn't matter if he used the scroll to save his life, things like this are irrelivent. anything could save anybodies life in whatever situation, that doesn't mean they need to pay XP for it).</p><p>The wizard is still level 1, while he gained exactly the same amount of XP as his friends. In this situation, the wizard has a lower CR just because he lost XP to making scrolls. It doesn't help by saying that the wizard just shouldn't make scrolls or like items. Why would they be there in the first place if the game is supposed to be balanced? You say the character will be more effective by having the scrolls, or the wand, or whatever. Sure it will.. for only a while. After that the items will have lost their use, and the one who made them will have this eternal hole in his XP total.</p><p>The example of the ring inside an anti-magic field.. It means nothing. The ring will have its use again after it gets out of it again. Cast dispel magic on it, same deal. Temporary negation. The same could be said about a rogue fighting agains something immune to sneak attacks.</p><p>The example of the food is also something that doesn't really have much to do with it, since you don't buy the bag of chips by giving them a finger, or one of your ears. Something that you can't replace. Yes, the way I see XP is that it can't be replaced. The standard max is 20 character levels, or 190,000 XP. Take out 1000 XP, and the character will forever be stuck at 189,000 XP (with 1000 XP being used up by the wands, scrolls, whatever), or 19th character level.</p><p>If you tell me that the character would just be able to gain more XP again, that would make the character more powerful than the characters that aren't able to create magical items, since the spellcaster could just keep creating items, making himself a higher CR, while all his non-spellcasting buddies keep strolling around with the same power, since they are stuck at 190,000 XP.</p><p>This example might not be totally true (not sure if the max is exactly at the point where the 20th level is gained), but the example would be true either way, since the non-spellcasters can't spend XP on anything.</p><p>I know that levels can go beyond 20th, and I'm not one to limit my players to 20 levels (if they ever get that far >_>), but it was just an example trying to explain why I feel this way.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kavon, post: 1198117, member: 9822"] When I said scroll, I meant anything that isn't permanent. So, anything with charges would count for that too. I'm just saying that, say, if you have a party with a wizard or some such in it, who spent 500 XP on making scrolls at 1st level (for example). The wizard uses all his scrolls up.. He just lost 500 XP to one-time items. His companions all have 500 XP, while the wizard is at 0. They go adventure a bit more, and gain another 500 XP.. All of the wizard's companions level up, but the wizard is still at 500 XP now. The scrolls are used, the wizards gained only a very small thing on them (it doesn't matter if he used the scroll to save his life, things like this are irrelivent. anything could save anybodies life in whatever situation, that doesn't mean they need to pay XP for it). The wizard is still level 1, while he gained exactly the same amount of XP as his friends. In this situation, the wizard has a lower CR just because he lost XP to making scrolls. It doesn't help by saying that the wizard just shouldn't make scrolls or like items. Why would they be there in the first place if the game is supposed to be balanced? You say the character will be more effective by having the scrolls, or the wand, or whatever. Sure it will.. for only a while. After that the items will have lost their use, and the one who made them will have this eternal hole in his XP total. The example of the ring inside an anti-magic field.. It means nothing. The ring will have its use again after it gets out of it again. Cast dispel magic on it, same deal. Temporary negation. The same could be said about a rogue fighting agains something immune to sneak attacks. The example of the food is also something that doesn't really have much to do with it, since you don't buy the bag of chips by giving them a finger, or one of your ears. Something that you can't replace. Yes, the way I see XP is that it can't be replaced. The standard max is 20 character levels, or 190,000 XP. Take out 1000 XP, and the character will forever be stuck at 189,000 XP (with 1000 XP being used up by the wands, scrolls, whatever), or 19th character level. If you tell me that the character would just be able to gain more XP again, that would make the character more powerful than the characters that aren't able to create magical items, since the spellcaster could just keep creating items, making himself a higher CR, while all his non-spellcasting buddies keep strolling around with the same power, since they are stuck at 190,000 XP. This example might not be totally true (not sure if the max is exactly at the point where the 20th level is gained), but the example would be true either way, since the non-spellcasters can't spend XP on anything. I know that levels can go beyond 20th, and I'm not one to limit my players to 20 levels (if they ever get that far >_>), but it was just an example trying to explain why I feel this way. [/QUOTE]
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