Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 1237990" data-attributes="member: 141"><p>I have an observation concerning Table 3-1: Class Ratings.</p><p></p><p>Proficiencies are being counted at every level, but logically should only be counted once. After all, once a character is proficient in heavy armor and all martial weapons, he can multi-class freely without losing anything. If these numbers are valid for single-class characters over the course of 20 levels, then the value of the proficiencies could be front-loaded onto the first level. At least for the purpose of comparing classes.</p><p></p><p>A first level fighter as a 1.33 bonus to his CR (20 levels of proficiencies at 0.07 each). A wizard, in contrast gets some simple weapon proficiencies, at 0.19. In other words, at low levels the fighter is better than the wizard. However, with proficiencies out of the equation, each level of fighter is worth 103.21, while a level of wizard is worth 122.01. That's a difference of 18.8 per level The fighter's increased bonus (1.33-.19 = 1.12) disappears after 6 levels (6 x 18.8 = 112.8). So an 7th level fighter should be as combat worthy as a 7th level wizard; above that the wizard is better.</p><p></p><p>The case is even more dramatic with clerics; not only do they get most of proficiencies which are so important at low levels, but they have 1.26 CR per level. But I think everyone knows that cleric is the most powerful class.</p><p></p><p>Neat, huh?</p><p></p><p>I am not suggesting that the principle of 1 PC level = +1 CR be abandoned. It's a useful approximation. I'm just saying that if you recalculate class ratings with the recognition that the proficiencies are front-loaded, you can see why low level fighters shine in relation to low level wizards, but that the situation is reversed at higher levels.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cheiromancer, post: 1237990, member: 141"] I have an observation concerning Table 3-1: Class Ratings. Proficiencies are being counted at every level, but logically should only be counted once. After all, once a character is proficient in heavy armor and all martial weapons, he can multi-class freely without losing anything. If these numbers are valid for single-class characters over the course of 20 levels, then the value of the proficiencies could be front-loaded onto the first level. At least for the purpose of comparing classes. A first level fighter as a 1.33 bonus to his CR (20 levels of proficiencies at 0.07 each). A wizard, in contrast gets some simple weapon proficiencies, at 0.19. In other words, at low levels the fighter is better than the wizard. However, with proficiencies out of the equation, each level of fighter is worth 103.21, while a level of wizard is worth 122.01. That's a difference of 18.8 per level The fighter's increased bonus (1.33-.19 = 1.12) disappears after 6 levels (6 x 18.8 = 112.8). So an 7th level fighter should be as combat worthy as a 7th level wizard; above that the wizard is better. The case is even more dramatic with clerics; not only do they get most of proficiencies which are so important at low levels, but they have 1.26 CR per level. But I think everyone knows that cleric is the most powerful class. Neat, huh? I am not suggesting that the principle of 1 PC level = +1 CR be abandoned. It's a useful approximation. I'm just saying that if you recalculate class ratings with the recognition that the proficiencies are front-loaded, you can see why low level fighters shine in relation to low level wizards, but that the situation is reversed at higher levels. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
v4: Challenge Ratings pdf (3.5 compatible)
Top