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<blockquote data-quote="Lostdwarf" data-source="post: 5539679" data-attributes="member: 85751">I think&nbsp; at least part of this was probably issues with the player, not the class.&nbsp; A &quot;hundreds of years old&quot; vampire is at minimum Paragon tier, possibly even Epic.&nbsp; A level 5 vampire has been around the block a few times, but he is just starting to get into his grove.&nbsp; By the time the same character is in early paragon many more of those classic vampire abilites would have appeared.&nbsp;Also, not to type cast, but I have the bad feelling that the guy who shows up at a living campaign game with a Vampire in hand has a higher than average chance of being the kind of guy that in previous editions would be playing the chaotic neutral with evil tendencies rogue and &quot;role playing&quot; his way to total party destruction and group conflict.&nbsp; Some people just get off on this at some level.&nbsp; The best solution is to beat them with lengths of rebar.&nbsp; And I mean the player, not the character.&nbsp;Also, while I respect the right of people to want to play this kind of stuff, it can present some serious RP issues.&nbsp; It really, really, has to be the right group.&nbsp; If you roll up on your standard DnD group with a Dwarven paladin of Moradin and a Cleric of Pelor and say &quot;Hey Guys Im a undead creature of the night, want ot go get some fat xp in the dungeon?&quot;&nbsp; things&nbsp; are going to go downhill in a hurry.&nbsp; Either it has to be a campaign that really is just nothing but dungeon busting and no story, or one set up where complex storytelling can overcome the more obvious confllicts that will arise.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lostdwarf, post: 5539679, member: 85751"] I think at least part of this was probably issues with the player, not the class. A "hundreds of years old" vampire is at minimum Paragon tier, possibly even Epic. A level 5 vampire has been around the block a few times, but he is just starting to get into his grove. By the time the same character is in early paragon many more of those classic vampire abilites would have appeared. Also, not to type cast, but I have the bad feelling that the guy who shows up at a living campaign game with a Vampire in hand has a higher than average chance of being the kind of guy that in previous editions would be playing the chaotic neutral with evil tendencies rogue and "role playing" his way to total party destruction and group conflict. Some people just get off on this at some level. The best solution is to beat them with lengths of rebar. And I mean the player, not the character. Also, while I respect the right of people to want to play this kind of stuff, it can present some serious RP issues. It really, really, has to be the right group. If you roll up on your standard DnD group with a Dwarven paladin of Moradin and a Cleric of Pelor and say "Hey Guys Im a undead creature of the night, want ot go get some fat xp in the dungeon?" things are going to go downhill in a hurry. Either it has to be a campaign that really is just nothing but dungeon busting and no story, or one set up where complex storytelling can overcome the more obvious confllicts that will arise. [/QUOTE]

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