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<blockquote data-quote="Sorren" data-source="post: 1689482" data-attributes="member: 20920">Again, you miss my point. I don't care where it came from or what system had it first. The fact is, both systems have it now. Therefore, they are both similar. That's what the &quot;check&quot; represents. Both systems have a &quot;feat&quot; system? Check.Unless you are saying they don't...Soak functions like d20's damage reduction. Soak = Damage ReductionDefense = Armor Class (or &quot;Defense&quot; in many d20 games)Both systems serve the EXACT same functions in both games. How can you deny that?Again, you could say Adam invented the skill system. It doesn't negate the fact that both systems have a skill system.Both systems have a skill system? Check.For a game whose character's very food often depends on violance, this is poor game design. WW realized this, and fixed it. Sure, some vampires liked to feed by seduction or whatever, but if I wanted to play a &quot;hunter&quot; type, I've essentially screwed the flow of the game.In a role-playing game, I shouldn't be denied a course of action because the system can't support it. You're suggesting d20 games don't allow you to role-play because it has a functional combat system? I think a lot of people would disagree with you. I myself have gone through several D&amp;D sessions without a second of combat and the stories were just as intense as any Vampire game I've ever played.You might consider trying to see past the stereotypes.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sorren, post: 1689482, member: 20920"] Again, you miss my point. I don't care where it came from or what system had it first. The fact is, both systems have it now. Therefore, they are both similar. That's what the "check" represents. Both systems have a "feat" system? Check. Unless you are saying they don't... Soak functions like d20's damage reduction. Soak = Damage Reduction Defense = Armor Class (or "Defense" in many d20 games) Both systems serve the EXACT same functions in both games. How can you deny that? Again, you could say Adam invented the skill system. It doesn't negate the fact that both systems have a skill system. Both systems have a skill system? Check. For a game whose character's very food often depends on violance, this is poor game design. WW realized this, and fixed it. Sure, some vampires liked to feed by seduction or whatever, but if I wanted to play a "hunter" type, I've essentially screwed the flow of the game. In a role-playing game, I shouldn't be denied a course of action because the system can't support it. You're suggesting d20 games don't allow you to role-play because it has a functional combat system? I think a lot of people would disagree with you. I myself have gone through several D&D sessions without a second of combat and the stories were just as intense as any Vampire game I've ever played. You might consider trying to see past the stereotypes. [/QUOTE]

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